From CNBC's Hardball (5/4/99)
CHRIS MATTHEWS: Has a country ever won a war by avoiding enemy casualties? Isn’t that what we’re doing? We’re blowing up bridges that are dark and buildings that are empty, and killing a few night watchmen who are dumb enough to show up for the midnight shift. But it’s a strange war we’re fighting – why is [President Clinton] avoiding casualties on the other side?
MATTHEWS: [Clinton] is about to dump this war on Madeleine Albright. He’s about to blame this war on this poor secretary of state, who basically is his staffer.
SEN. JOHN McCAIN (guest): Yeah.
MATTHEWS: She’s not an independent principal.
MATTHEWS: She does what he tells her to do. Do you think that’s fair? Is that gentlemanly conduct to dump this on a woman?
MATTHEWS: Are we going back to the old notion of a president as a leader and not a consensus builder?
McCAIN: I hope so.
MATTHEWS: John Wayne rather than Jane Fonda.
McCAIN: That’s my only chance.
MATTHEWS: ‘Cause you mean you’re not running as…?
McCAIN: Because there’s no way…
MATTHEWS: …you’re not running as Alan Alda here.
MATTHEWS: You’re running as John Wayne, more or less.
McCAIN: That’s the only way I can succeed.
MATTHEWS: Well, you’re doing well. Thank you, Senator McCain.