Back in June, a study by Harvard students (echoing earlier work in Extra!—5-6/08) found that media outlets like the New York Times consistently called things like waterboarding torture when they reported on them–that is, until the Bush administration’s torture came to light. The study sparkeda lot of discussion, with the Times responding that it didn’t refer to waterboarding as torture because it wanted to avoid “taking sides in a political dispute.”
In today’s New York Times (11/3/10), a review of George W. Bush’s new book shows that the Times is sticking with that formula:
He likewise defends his decision to authorize harsh interrogation techniques on captured terror suspects. When the CIA asked him if they could subject Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the September 11 mastermind, to a form of simulated drowning called waterboarding, he writes that he said, “Damn right.” The interrogations, he adds, “saved lives.”
So Bush’s admittedly cavalier attitude towards torture is still not a reason to call it torture.
“Harsh interrogation techniques” are yelling in someone’s face and banging the table.
Torture is torture – try it sometime.
And if you don’t think this is still going on under Dear Misleader, I have some prime real estate on the Gulf Coast you might be interested in.
Bring your own air filter mask.
“Enhanced interrogation” is the term I’ve heard. Kinda sounds like something that requires a microphone, a script, or maybe ordering in lunch.
Please, let the trails of these government criminals begin. We are all unsafe as long as injustice stands.
Please, this was the highest ranking terrorist in the world who may have had knowledge of future attacks, The American military tribunal responsible for initially referring to “waterboarding” as torture during WWII Japanese war crimes trials labeled it “possibly torture, but not always life-threatening,” if performed by standard. (The Japs did not care much for standards) In order to ensure a death sentence, torture was used by the media in describing it because that is what the military released, although it was not what the prosecutors were charginh. Anyway, getting back to the current, the Japanese killed people waterboarding, we did not.
You would rather see President George W. Bush on trial than KSM? There will never be a trial because nothing was done wrong. KSM was waterboarded and there was not another attack on American soil. Impossible to prove, just like this “second Great Depression” we heard Pres. Obama avoided, even though it was Pres. Bush who passed TARP and rescued the banks in the first place.
Re: Kevin Metz:
Japs? When will this prick refer to me as a Kraut or perhaps a Kike?
And bullshit such as the sentence by this genius proclaiming “the Japanese killed people waterboarding, we did not” is pure fantasy.
It has been demonstrated on national TV on one of the late shows about water boarding. One of the guests made a comment that it wasn’t torture. So the host asked that person to return at a later date. He did. They started the procedure and after only 10 seconds, he screamed “stop”. He said he couldn’t breathe, his heart rate sky rocketed and his mind went crazy. Now take that and add more minutes to this procedure, and you will find that some of them must have died for lack of oxygen. It was written at the Geneva Convention at the end of WWII, the procedures to follow after getting a prisoner of war into your camp. This is in violation of the Geneva Convention because it did cause deaths to our American soldiers held captive in the Japanese war camps. Why is ok now to ignore the rules, after all the other nations signed onto this agreement back in 1945/46?
If Bush really believes waterboarding and other “harsh interrogation methods” do not constitute torture, perhaps he would be willing to prove his point by subjecting his wife, his daughters and/or himself to them.
I like Richard’s idea.
Re: Kevin Metz
Since when is the water torture not torture? It was applied in the Algerian War and there was a lot of anti-government fanfare against French government torture. I believe the water torture has been considered torture at least since the Inquisition. I do not think the standard of torture is whether you die from it or not. I do not want to trumpet American values to the world as: We torture, but do not torture as sadistically as Imperial Japan.
I believe there is no dichotomy between putting Khalid Sheikh Muhammed and George W. Bush on trial. I strongly believe that all accused criminals should have their day in court. Proudly admitting to State, Federal, and International crimes should at least be investigated, not prejudicially ignored due to past or present political status.
following on from mary, christopher hitchens underwent waterboarding on camera
his conclusion “if waterboarding does not constitute torture, then there is no such thing as torture.”
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/video/2008/hitchens_video200808
Right, Woodward burnstein. Hey, Kevin? Tonight, right before mommy tucks you in, take a washcloth and soak it in water, and ring it just a bit so it’s not dripping wet, and then place it firmly over your face, covering your nose and mouth. Now breathe. Better still, have your mom do it, and make sure she ties you down first. Then you can really take the measure of how deep her love is for you, besides learning first-hand about torture.
P.S.: Waterboarding isn’t simulated drowning. It’s drowning in fact, which is stopped, sometimes, before death occurs.
P.P.S.: The tough-guy narrative that avoids the word “torture” shows that our former draft-dodging, sociopath President is a coward, among many other offensive things. The “memoirs” that he “wrote” are simply another way to make the official lies and crimes more official, as it were. That the NYT stilll thinks that there is some dispute about torture, it’s use, and it’s legality is no surprise–they’re going along, as they always did, with the official story.
But the “lives” Bush referred to were his, Cheney’s, Rove’s and the other barbarians who were made “manly” by seeing grown men soiling themselves.
To Kevin, at lease one US veteran has received disability pay as a result of “mock” torture given to US soldiers to help them resist torture. And those were fellow American servicemen. A sheriff and two deputies are in prison in Texas for water boarding a suspect to force a confession. So, Bush escapes punishment because “if a president does it that means it’s not a crime,” as Nixon claimed? Or, should the sheriff and deputies be freed and taxpayers pay for their crimes? Or, is the Convention Against Torture a “quaint” document that can be ignored. The Constitution declares that it and any treaties ratified by the US are the law of the land. The Convention Against Torture was ratified and permits no excuse for torture. Bush claims he saved lives but intelligence officials said otherwise. The Gestapo were more honest when they said they tortured suspected spies and terrorists to protect Germany.
It was torture period!If Bush or Obama believe in it -have the balls to call it as it is.We deserve the honesty of at least the language we share.Playing with words is not fit for the commander en chief of our armed forces.
The first thing that always jumped out at me when Bush was gov. of Texas, was the amount of death sentences.It is certainly only the narcissist that could take on such decisions and embrace more of the same infinitem. Scarily Something all these presidents seem to share as a character pre-flaw for the job.
This is a country that is willing to give up its own freedoms for security, and its soul. Obama persists with use of the main vehicle to these ends – the Patriot Act. They will whitewash all they do.