Stories about new state voter ID laws should, at a minimum, explain that the problem the laws supposedly address–voter fraud–doesn’t really exist.
On that count, a New York Times report (4/30/12) by Michael Shear failed, since it presented the issue as a partisan dispute. On the one hand, Democrats complain:
Many of the laws in question–including the ones in Florida and Wisconsin–are the subject of legal challenges by Democratic groups who say they are part of a partisan, Republican effort to dampen the turnout of voters, particularly members of minority groups, for Mr. Obama and his party.
While on the other hand:
Advocates of the new laws, which have been passed in about 30 states since the last presidential election, say they are necessary to prevent voter fraud. They include tougher voter identification requirements and more rules about where and how groups can register new voters.
The Times‘ editorial page has been clear on this issue. Too bad news reports like this one don’t do justice to the facts.
Well, electoral fraud *is* a huge problem.
It’s just that it has nothing to do with those who are voting.
a recently concluded study in virginia found that vote fraud there involved felons who either illegally registered to vote or who illegally voted in the general election, or both.
none of the cases appeared to involve a person who misrepresented his or her identity at the polls to vote.
in other words, the illegal votes involved mistakes made by the election and/or registration agencies and an id check at the polling station wouldn’t have disallowed these votes.
and down in texas
“Fewer than five ‘illegal voting’ complaints involving voter impersonations were filed with the Attorney General’s office from the 2008 and 2010 general elections in which more than 13 million voters participated.
Texas has suffered from ‘multiple cases of voter fraud,’ Gov. Rick Perry said in a recent FOX News interview, though the attorney general handled just 20 allegations of election law violations in the 2008 and 2010 elections. Most involved mail-in ballot or campaign finance violations, electioneering too close to a polling place or a voter blocked by an election worker.
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local_news/article/Cheating-rarely-seen-at-polls-3432801.php
“Texas has suffered from ‘multiple cases of voter fraud,’ Gov. Rick Perry said…”
Yes they did, They elected the biggest fraud in a couple of centuries, Rick Perry and he has defrauded the millions, who voted in good faith hoping for a person with intelligence.
The only fraud I have ever seen has been by Republicans trying to tell voters they were not eligible to vote.
Rick Perry is just like dubya except not as smart.
Name me the things you don’t need an ID for.Then tell me why voting should be exempt?
@michael e: There’s a universe of things you don’t need an ID for. Shopping. Jogging in the park. Walking the dog. Playing Wii. Watching TV. Going to the movies. Sleeping. Eating dinner. The list goes on and on. And many of these things are pretty important: sleeping and eating are essential to life, are they not?
Voting should be on that list because by requiring and ID, you’re gonna end up preventing or discounting votes of otherwise qualified voters in order to stop a wrong that isn’t even happenening.
Here’s how things went in my district during the primary. It was the first election where they required a photo ID. A few people came to the polls with a recently-updated ID– a couple due to moves and one (if I remember correctly) due to name change after divorce. Not surprisingly, the voter roll data did not match the new ID data. When the poll watchers noted this– and, judging by the age of the poll monitors in my district, they’ve been watching every poll since McKinley was elected– they would grudgingly give the voter a provisional ballot. Usually while grumbling under thier breath about the nonconformist who doesn’t have the decency to stay put or stay married.
And this is done in the name of preventing voter fraud– a crime that is, for all intents and purposes, not happening. You do realize that in order to influence an election in all but the smallest of districts that you’d have to have thousands or tens of thousands of ineligible voters impersonating someone, right? If you think that’s even remotely likely to happen, then you’re delusional and paranoid. But the inconvenience to and possible discouraging of legitimate voter is definitely happening. And it ain’t worth it.
[T]ell me why voting should be exempt?
Voting is constitutionally guaranteed.
There there’s these:
Impediments to voter registration
Photo ID laws
Purging voter rolls
Jim Crow laws
Ex-felon disenfranchisement
Disinformation about voting procedures
“For example, in recall elections for the Wisconsin State Senate in 2011, Americans for Prosperity (a conservative organization (AFP, aka Koch Industries) that was supporting Republican candidates) sent many Democratic voters a mailing that gave an incorrect deadline for absentee ballots. Voters who relied on the deadline in the mailing would have sent in their ballots too late for them to be counted. The organization said that the mistake was a typographical error.
“The only kind of voter fraud that is supposed to be prevented by these laws is one voter impersonating another. Not only would impersonating other voters one-by-one be an absurd strategy for stealing an entire election, but the already-existing penalties—five years in prison and a $10,000 fine—are doing an effective job at preventing such fraud.”
“Registering the poor “to vote is like handing out burglary tools to criminals.”
-Conservative columnist Matthew Vadum
Unlike Republicans who use lobbyists for that purpose.
In the 2004 election, for example, about 3 million votes were cast in Wisconsin—only seven were declared invalid—all of which were cast by felons who had finished their sentences and didn’t realize they were still barred from voting. As a result, Wisconsin’s overall fraud rate came in at a whopping 0.00023 percent.
Google those phrases and follow the links.
Michael-e people were voting just fine with the ID they had. Now with the new law in place suddenly they have to have a more expensive new kind of ID to do it. Now why is that? Why should they need new ID when the old one was enough? The real reason is that the hard line Republicans want to keep the Democratic vote down since that is to whom this pernicious law is aimed at. Tell me why the present ID’s for the poor aren’t now sufficient?
michael e,
Driving is a privilege. Voting is a basic right of ALL citizens, but not all citizens have ID’s.
i’d add that all voters in most states showed enough id of some sort to satisfy the election board that they were eligible to vote when first registering. there’s no need for these more stringent requirements since voter fraud involving impersonation at the polling place is non existent.
voter id is a solution in search of a problem.
Republicans complain openly about voter fraud to distract attention of their behind the scenes committing of election fraud — a much bigger problem. They have to resort to these tactics to win elections because most people don’t want their tired ideology. It only works for the minority rich who could never vote it in with their numbers, so they cage, redistrict, push the ID law, purge voter rolls, rig the machines, spread disinformation and lie. It’s anti-democracy and just plain dirty but the only way they can win.
If they had a winning platform for all, they would be pushing for an Australian style of democracy where you have to vote or suffer a fine. Unfortunately they don’t have that winning platform for all; therefore the fewer who vote the better the republican’s chances of winning are.
It sounds like half of you believe no Id is necessary.Some believe what we have now is good enough.But none of you want to do this once- and do it right.I have seen Iraqis risking death,walking miles to get their thumb inked.We cant secure an ID?Come on be serious.You can’t drive without one.You can’t buy a house or rent an apartment without one.Whomever does not have an ID can easily be taken care of,and most states are prepared to facilitate that.If your argument is constitutional(don’t believe that will prove out) or based on big brother fear, I get it. But beyond that small percentage……Tell us who does not have one, and it can be taken care of.
Curt …You think we should pay a fine if we don’t vote?You are a liberal aren’t you?This is nothing more than updating the process to make sure that the machines are delivered on time.That they work.That they are secure.That the person voting is the person listed.In the Bush /Gore vote it came down to a few hundred votes….out of 50 million plus!Is it not possible that their were 300 frauds out of 50 million?We need to do the best our technology allows.
@michael e: “You can’t drive without [an ID]…” Not every voter drives.
“You can’t buy a house or rent an apartment without [an ID]…” Not every voter buys houses or rents apartments.
“Is it not possible there were 300 frauds out of 50 million?” Well, yeah… in the same way it’s possible to win the lottery.
John i did not quite get your point.Are you trying to say the need to produce ID on any of a great number of things is over rated?Probably not as important as today’s society has made it?And certainly not necessary in the voting process?I don’t agree.I don’t think most people agree.I believe it will become the law of the land.And rightfully so.
repeating what others have said, there is no credible evidence that voter fraud by impersonation has taken place at an election location anywhere in the country. [see my two comments posted above dated 5/2/12]
almost all actual fraud was due to someone who, after being allowed to register in error, voted, an act a photo id would not have prevented.
as harrybuttle noted on 5/5
In the 2004 election, for example, about 3 million votes were cast in Wisconsin—only seven were declared invalid—all of which were cast by felons who had finished their sentences and didn’t realize they were still barred from voting.
in ohio, current law allows for various forms of non-photo, non-government issued items to serve as valid id….. no fraud at the polling places has been uncovered.
voter photo id is a solution in search of a problem. [unless the problem is minorities voting, that is]
Woodward if there had never been votor fraud in the history of any election anywhere ,at anytime…..you still have to secure this to the best of our ability.Do you really want sometime in the future something to happen on a scale that effects elections because we did not upgrade?Remember the old machines?I loved them.Now the new ones are hard to use arrays of plinking lights.Old folks have a lot of trouble with them.Onward and upward is the name of the game.It is needed.You are on the wrong side of a very simple issue of securing the vote.When I first heard about it I was surprise anyone had issues with it.
voter photo id does nothing to “secure the vote.” there is currently no in-person voter fraud, let alone an increase [which might have been expected, in the internet era, when make false documentation is easier than ever] that needs to be addressed
the real problem is with outdated, incomplete and/or inconsistent voter registration records… that takes time and money to fix…photo id won’t help with that and is totally unnecessary [unless you think minorities voting is the problem, that is]
@michael e: So secure the vote at any cost? No matter how many legitimate voters it discourages or adversely impacts? All in the name of addressing a crime that is, for all intents and purposes, not happening? This seems reasonable to you?
Pennsylvania’s new ID law’s main provision, requiring the state’s 8.2 million registered voters to produce drivers’ licenses or other official forms of photo ID, targets a kind of fraud that by all accounts hasn’t cropped up in recent years.
“The phrase used is voter impersonation, where John Doe pretends to be Henry Jones in order to cast a vote,” veteran election lawyer Gregory Harvey said. “No one has identified any such cases, certainly in Philadelphia, in my time frame.” Harvey is 75.
The Administrative Office of Pennsylvania Courts reported last month that there had been no convictions for voter impersonation or voter fraud in Pennsylvania in the last five years.
Keesha Gaskins, senior counsel at the nonpartisan Brennan Center for Justice, notes “When you look at what really happens around the country, most voter problems involve registration, and much of it is administrative in nature – people moving and not realizing they can’t go back to their old polling place to vote, that kind of thing.”
http://articles.philly.com/2012-05-04/news/31556815_1_vote-fraud-absentee-voting-voting-machines