“How sorry should we be” for people facing “a terrible outcome” who drew “a shitty lot in life”? Not very, says Kos (Daily Kos, 12/12/16).
Daily Kos publisher and Vox Media co-founder Markos “Kos” Moulitsas, an influential voice in liberal politics, published a blog post (Daily Kos, 12/12/16) that captures just how terribly leading Democratic pundits are taking Hillary Clinton’s unexpected defeat. In the wake of this loss, some of the more hardcore Clinton partisans have chosen, in lieu of self-examination and internal criticism, to simply lash out at the voters they failed to win over.
With the punitive glee of a medieval executioner, Moulitsas proclaimed: “Be Happy for Coal Miners Losing Their Health Insurance. They’re Getting Exactly What They Voted For”:
For example, why should we weep for the retired coal miners who will now lose their health insurance thanks to the GOP majority—despite the best efforts of coal-state Democrats to change the outcome?
Yes, this will be a terrible outcome for a group of people who have really drawn a shitty lot in life. But how sorry should we be for this crowd? Coal country swung hard for Donald Trump, winning 70 to 80 percent of the vote in some of these counties.
So a major voice in liberal media is now not only morally justifying millions of working people losing their health insurance, but actually insisting we be “happy” for it? Moulitsas went on to evoke a classic right-wing dictum about people getting the democracy they deserve:
Don’t weep for these coal miners, now abandoned by their GOP patrons. They are getting exactly the government that they voted for. Democrats can no longer offer unrequited love and cover for them. And isn’t this what democracy is all about? They won the election! This is what they wanted!
Missing from this equation is that US democracy, and working people’s relationship to it, are not pristine and incorruptible. The influence of money in politics, especially post–Citizens United, is tremendous. As The Intercept’s Lee Fang warned nine months before the election, the billionaire Koch brothers have spent years working from the grassroots up to turn the Rust Belt red.
Billionaire-backed Rust Belt Republican governors, as The Atlantic notes, worked for decades to undermine the Democratic Party’s primary voter turnout mechanism—unions. In addition to their evergreen exploitation of white racism, billionaire-backed Fox News fed voters misleading stories about Clinton wanting to “put coal miners out of work.” (Clinton announcing at a West Virginia town meeting, “We’re going to put a lot of coal miners and coal companies out of business,” didn’t help.)
Instead of combating or even addressing the economic and media forces that boost Republican prospects in places like West Virginia, Moulitsas chooses instead to wish disease and death on those easily susceptible to them. Of course, voters are not blameless, but material, measurable forces led to Donald Trump’s victory, and skating past those in favor of moralistic voter-shaming is neither useful nor compassionate. Those most responsible for Trump—namely, the wealthy backers of the GOP and their cynical media apparatus—won’t be losing their health insurance anytime soon.
Adam Johnson is a contributing analyst for FAIR.org. Follow him on Twitter at @AdamJohnsonNYC.
Messages to Daily Kos can be sent here (or to Markos Moulitsas on Twitter: @Markos). Please remember that respectful communication is the most effective.
More on the topic: Open Letter to the Daily Kos
Dear Kos,
I’ve read your posts frequently over the years, and even sent a donation. Thanks for all your good work. I’ve felt a level of smugness creep in, however, which especially reflects in your recent headline, “Morons who voted for Republicans now worry they will take away their health care—as promised.” You even name call a woman who voted Republican a “moron.” Hillary Clinton’s “deplorables” comment falls in this same category. It’s this kind of arrogance that contributed to Trump’s Electoral College selection in the first place.
Many people who voted for Trump are not hard core racists or neo-nazis. They’ve been hurt by years of job loss, downward mobility, and feeling left out, and they’re pissed off. Trump, the billionaire from Queens, directed his campaign towards them, appealing to racism and nativism, while Clinton ran as the establishment, with support from everyone from the Bushes to Beyonce. Look who won.
Given the level of public education and media indoctrination, I’m not surprised that many people who voted for Trump out of anger, or as the “lesser of evils,” might not fully understand what they voted for. Isn’t it our job to point out the contradictions, instead of calling them names? If we’re going to save medicare, we may very well need your “morons,” because they are going to have to advocate with their Republican congresspeople to save it. It’s in their interest to do so, but unless some Republicans can be moved against making Medicare a voucher system, we’re in big trouble.
Now is what we might call a “teaching moment.” Instead of just letting the Republicans make the shitty healthcare we have currently even worse, we can demand something better. We can even appeal to Trump voters to join in. Most of them certainly don’t want to lose Medicare and Medicaid. They’ve been bamboozled, and some humility in approaching them might help them listen to what we have to say. Please. Stop the name calling, treat people with respect, and seek common ground. An apology might be a good way to start a dialogue.
Here are the “Rules of the Road” on your website:
DO NOT
3 Insult the character, intelligence, or background of people with whom you are arguing. You want to win an argument? Then don’t engage in ad-hominem attacks.
4 Use racist, sexist, classist, homophobic, ageist, able-ist language — or hate speech, generally. It is not acceptable at this site. We respect everyone.
5 Make personal attacks or threats. This includes, but is not limited to: name calling, harassment or bullying toward any other site user. Also don’t follow users you don’t like from story to story to harass them…
Please follow your own rules.
Sincerely yours,
Charlie Hinton
San Francisco, CA
Great letter. Thanks for sending that to them. I’m an ex-subscriber of Daily Kos, as well. Read their articles and commented daily. But eventually I realized they’re less progressive than I thought. While they feature some good progressive bloggers, the organization as a whole seems to toe the Establishment Democratic Party line.
It’s too bad, really. One can occasionally learn a lot from some of the smart people who post(ed) there. I’m seeing less and less of that. The problem is the censorship of any opinion that deviates from the party line. The ideological box gets smaller and smaller, and that’s not conducive to generating ideas. I think Kos is censoring his site into irrelevance.
Kos was part of the Clinton machine, shutting down Bernie supporters any way possible. It was flat-out Rovian tactics. Daily Kos was just one cog in the huge mechanism Hilary thought she bought herself. Perhaps you remember that MoveOn came out dramatically in Sanders’s favor in January/February. After they demonstrated their support for Bernie they were shut down for three or four months. Try to find content for Moveon from February to May.
Someone called me from MoveOn asking for a donation in June. I asked politely what happened to MoveOn after they came out for Bernie. She slammed the headset down on my ear!
For anyone who supports the gaslighting we took on Daily Kos, you need your integrity tank topped up.
I’m so sorry you voted for a guy who is going to ruin your lives. Boo hucking foo. Trump loves the poorly educated, and they love him
Anyone who voted for Citizen KKKane has a lot to answer for
But they’re not obligated to respond to this condescending Clintonista questioning.
Clintonistas? Are you aiming to insult me as a voter for Hillary Clinton, or is the -ista added to insult Latino and Hispanic persons?
I have to admit that as part of the east coast, liberal elite (Lawyer, CT), I take a certain amount of spiteful pleasure in thinking that the people who voted Trump in will likely be the most harmed by him.
Your article implies that we should be reaching out to these vulnerables deceived by Koch funded lies, like they are all intellectually challenged or misled children. That attitude is even more condescending and elitist than Kos’ orignal article. Moreover, it is wrong. These are adults. Trump told them he’d repeal the ACA, and they voted for him. So why should anyone feel sorry for them when that’s exactly what they asked for – nay, demanded.
And how exactly do the Democrats, or anyone else reach out to people that are bent on voting against their own self interest. Trump sold hate, and they couldn’t get enough.
So I’m with Kos on this one.
Exactly my feelings. If these folks like to pretend the obvious slanders against Obama and Clinton somehow justified a vote for the vulgar blowhard let them dream on. Maybe this is when pretend hits the concrete. Sucks for them.
To be clear, I expect the GOP can’t expect to screw this up. They figure out a way to preserve, improve and rename it. They’ll wind up keeping it about the same as far as getting healthier people to sign up so the industry can afford to continue coverage to 26 & people with pre-existing conditions, etc.
I don’t take any pleasure in it; I’m more disappointed in them than anything. Every election they suck down the koolaid the mainstream media gives them, and vote against their own best interests. I wish they’d learn their lesson already.
” Trump sold hate, and they couldn’t get enough.”
Trump did sell hate, but he also sold Hope (“Make America Great Again”) and Change (“I’m gonna drain the swamp”). And Democrats should know that hope & change helps win elections when things aren’t going so well.
That was Hillary Clinton’s great mistake: Running on “Everything is basically fine” when it demonstrably wasn’t for millions of people.
Another one for Kos. I think FAIR and some of their regulars got what they wanted, a Republican majority so they can bemoan and complain, poor me.
Ditto. It’s interesting how the venomous Trump worshippers want to destroy peoples lives, that are different than their own…color, sexuality, religions etc etc etc. But when reality sets in, and they’ve f’d themselves like everyone told them they would. I’m supposed to be the one to give them a safe space. Sorry, my tax dollars will once again, pay for their welfare. There’s your safe space. You’re welcome.
Daily Kos. Losers. lol
I love FAIR, but this time I agree with Daily Kos. Anyone who voted for Trump but now whines about losing health insurance gets no pity from me. #Darwin
But it was about so much more than just the ACA. Trump made A LOT of promises (probably to cast a very wide net). Add to that all of Hillary’s negatives, and it could’ve been any number of reasons people voted for him (or not at all). But one thing is for sure; this election is definitely one for the history books.
yeah emails definitely makes up for losing your health insurance
But which bit of him have a history of him screwing anyone who trusted him wasn’t a clue?
I am absolutely appalled at the actions taken by the Daily KOS. What happened to the action of rising above the name calling & dismissive comments?
Awful. I am done reading that site.
Since when are Democrats suddenly on the hook for being decent, when we’ve spent the last 8 years taking all the terrible, racist filth the right has thrown at Obama? The obstruction, the Birther stupidity? Sorry, Republicans lost their right to demand decency a long time ago. Trump and his supporters deserve exactly the same treatment as they have given Obama. And now that they’re getting it, they can’t handle it. Suck it up sweetheart. It’s going to be a long two years.
You know this is a tough one. For years the complaint against Democrats is they’re pushovers. They lose and they go it’s OK. Republicans say our goal is to make Obama a 1 term president. They don’t use it against them. Second term republicans say if Obama is forit. We’re against it. Democrats take the high road and don’t call them out on it. Oh a little squeak here and there but not the countless robot calls I get from republicans. You know what? I’m stuck with Trump too. And I really didn’t want to go down this road but he is in the process of fucking my life and my childrens lives going forward. Democrats tried their best to extend benefits but Republicans beat them becatof majorities in both houses and future hope. So fuck them. No more trying to co-operate. Let them deal with being fucked over like me and my family are going to be. While Mitch McConnel and Ryan retire as millionaires.
I have sworn off KOS. I don’t listen to fake liberals.
Me too. I didn’t know Kos was a co-founder of Vox, but that helps explain why that publication is worse than useless.
Kos became painful to read a long time ago. They’re not progressives; they’re just loyal party dogs.
Great minds… I just posted a comment to that effect.
Kos is not a site for “thinking and analyzing”. It’s a site for cheerleading the positions of DNC officials.
Apart for the callousness of Moulitsas comment, it shows a deep ignorance/denial of why the Democrats just lost not only the White House but many governorships as well.
Doubling down on dumb is not likely to yield wins for the Democrats in the future.
Shame on you. Millions of Americans were taken in by this snake oil sales man. These people were conned by a master com man. Everyone who voted for this asshat was a rube. Many were highly educated white suburban voters. You probably are related to or have a neighbor who voted for Trumplethinskin. They fell for Trump’s lies too. Maybe they can afford their health insurance, but many of those who have lost their jobs and who live on the edge cannot. Millions fell for Donalds bullshit, from wealthy to poor.
To denigrate the poor and those who live on the edge exposes you as a heartless asshole. You may call yourself a liberal, but in reality you are a smug, too comfortable, self identifying elitist, living comfortably with WiFi and expresso makers and Apple laptops which half the country can’t imagine ever having.
There was a time when liberals and progressives identified with those less fortunate. Where the hell did you people come from? There was a time when we supported and worked to improve the lot of those less fortunate than us. We didn’t just contribute to some charity in hopes of getting a nice tax deduction. We didn’t just sit on our asses and type snide and cruel remarks. There is a special place reserved for you in Dante’s inferno.
Sorry Keats, I’m with Kos on this one. Coal Miners….let’s see…..I think they used to fight and die for their Unions so they could have a voice, but many then decided to leave the unions. Then they decided that Trump would help them?? After being crapped on by the GOP for decades? Sometimes it takes gettin’ hit up side the head with a 2×4 for some people to wake up. It IS really sad that some will now lose their healthcare, but honestly, either they are REALLY stupid or, more likely, failed to pay attention enough to make a rational vote. Trump and the GOP have absolutely been screaming to do away with unions and healthcare benefits for the masses for decades. This wasn’t a “hidden agenda” – it was RIGHT OUT THERE IN THE CENTER OF THE CAMPAIGNS and the PARTY PLATFORMS. Maybe more of those who voted for Trump will pay more attention next time instead of letting their racism and their white nationalism lead them. As another comment said…..WE WHO FOUGHT OUR GUTS OUT to keep Trump from becoming President will have to live with the coming shitstorm and so will those who supported him.
The coal miners got what they wanted. People like Jessie Jackson has been speaking out on their behalf for years, but they prefer the racist hate mongering of Trump and the Republicans.
Perhaps the best outcome of this election will be Republican and Democrat working people will walk hand in hand with pitchforks going after the Congressional corporatists who have been selling us out for the last 30+ years.
Agree with the sentiment, do not hope for that outcome though. My hope is these Trump voters wake up in time to find that this could be the result of their willful ignorance. I’m not too keen on feeling their pain when they have been so easily, and cynically, misled.
Perhaps, my not being part of the east coast, liberal elite leads me not to take spiteful pleasure in thinking that the people who voted Trump in will likely be the most harmed by him. There’s a large number of clueless, yet lucky, Democrats who simply can’t imagine how so many working class people would purposefully vote against their “best” interests. Those people did vote their “best” interests–twice–in 2008 and 2012, and got nothing for it, from a popular, do-nothing President whose sole Legacy will be that he was the first black male President, though I’m sure that he’ll do well with his presidential library and loads of after-dinner speaking engagements (isn’t he just a lot of fun!).
News Flash to Connecticut attorneys: The neo-liberal economy that crashed in 2008 has recovered, at the expense of the wage earning, tax paying public, but only for those who caused the collapse in the first place, the Banking and Financial community, including the several Stock Markets. Millions who lived lower middle class lives in 2000 are surviving on the brink of abject poverty and homelessness, one paycheck from disaster. The only candidate with media exposure who addressed the issue was Trump, however simplistic and empty his words might have been. Hillary stirred herself sufficient to insult those people (the Deplorables), but couldn’t bother to address their concerns in any serious manner.
After stealing the nomination from Sanders, she ran the worse campaign in recent memory. She lost on her own, she didn’t need anyone’s assistance. Nor should desperate voters be blamed for the party and the candidates shortcomings.
When you ain’t got nothing, you got nothing to lose.
Amen, brother. Thanks for saving me a lot of typing.
Well said
Thank you Steve; you’re the first one on here that really “gets it.” The arrogance of the liberal elites has left such a bad taste in my mouth and I feel as “a man without a country.” The irony of their bigotry does not go unnoticed.
You put it so succinctly. I voted Green, not because I love all of their platform, but because I am tired of the know-it-all chattering classes who’ve made careers out of belittling people without even trying to understand their point of view. They could get away with it through the 70’s when it only affected factory workers, but now that the whole middle class is feeling it, they are shocked that their patronizing, “center-right” opinions are no longer cutting it.
I grew up in steel country, now known as the rust belt, watched the factories around me close and ship jobs overseas, and yet somehow remained a liberal. Well I’m not. I’m the left, the real left, and I hope we grow a new party, one that stands for human rights, the right to healthcare, a decent job, and a green future.
“Be Happy for Coal Miners Losing Their Health Insurance.”
Well, that’s likely to pick up a lot of votes from coal miners in future elections.
It’s not really necessary for the Democrats to get votes in order to serve their purpose. They just need to fend off candidates like Sanders and exist as an alternative to the R’s so that elections don’t look like Soviet era one party elections. If they do happen to win they can bail out Wall Street and fail to prosecute the banksters just as well as the R’s.
Since when have Democrats given anybody but their big money donors “unrequited love and cover?” The Democrats get more preposterous by the breath. Liese Howarth and St. Pete are all for the Schadenfreude of the Daily Kos. It’s not because they, Liese a lawyer after all, live comfortable and fat no matter the Democratic or Republic regime. Wars across the globe, fattening the military industrial complex, treating the environment as a personal trash receptacle for unbridled consumption, torture and other gross human rights violations, a sucking up to Wall Street bankers are common to both parties, but worthy of contempt only when presided over by a Republican. Obama’s wars, okay. Bush’s and Trump’s, not so much. I didn’t vote because even the Senate race in Illinois wasn’t worth the effort to cast a yea or nay vote one way or the other. But had Illinois been a swing state I would have voted Trump as the less effective evil. Not to say I support Trump because I don’t. But that I support the known quantity of Hillary less. Whatever Trump’s gargantuan liabilities, we would indubitably for example, never have heard Lady Clinton denigrating the exorbitant waste of the F-35. Anybody who believes “Democrats tried their best to extend [welfare] benefits” is living in a dream world. Democrats serve the same corporate interests as the Republicans: the vultures in the health care for profit industry, arms manufacturers, the oil companies and Wall Street bankers, George Soros, Warren Buffett and Zbigniew Brzezinski. News flash Rick Wiese. Obama and the Democrats owned both houses of Congress for his first two years as president, and didn’t pass a single significant piece of progressive legislation. Notwithstanding the mandate and political capital Obama had in November, 2008, it took a scant 2 years for the Democrats to get crushed in the 2010 mid-terms. To get beat by the likes of Michelle Bachman and Mike Pence. And that’s blamed on Republican majorities in Congress. What absurdity. I agree wholeheartedly with michael. Perhaps the silver lining will be pitchforks of rebellion. Anybody who thinks Hillary would have been a shred preferable to Trump is every bit to blame for Trump as Trump himself is. What more corruption do you need from Clinton than her venal actions at the Clinton Foundation, or her conspiracies to steal the nomination from Sanders? On just the very short list? Or Obama for that matter. Obama had the unmitigated gall to say on The Daily Show last night that people are obsessed with the substance of the emails leaked from the DNC rather than the source. Trying to sweep that pile of corruption away from witnesses’ eyes.
Good post. Just one bone to pick. Dems only had a 6 month window (in 2009 I think) when they had the numbers (free of GOP obstruction) to pass anything. It was written about quite a bit back then.
My family is from Pikeville, Kentucky. Right near the Tug River that forms the West Virginia state line. I’ve seen the poverty and despair of Appalachia first hand, and what I saw doesn’t hold a damn candle to what my brothers and sister and I endured, not by a damn sight. With that in mind, my response to the posted article is this: what a load of weepy, touchy feely, kumbaya whoreshit. I have family that stands to lose the coverage for which they yearned for decades under President Cupcake. My heart goes out in ways the author’s cannot and will not to all of the people who fought against Trump and Doctor Closet. But the ones who were so willfully stupid and arrogant? Fuck them. Until they bleed. Good, lose your fucking coverage, you shiteaters. You’ve pissed all over the things Appalachian laborers have fought and bled and died for (literally, Massacre of Matewan and Battle of Blair Mountain, anyone?), to satiate your retarded racist resentment of shit YOU CHOOSE not to understand. I hope the lot of you fucking die slow.
To be fair and accurate, they and many others are indeed going to get what they voted for.
It’s not as if Republican policies and intentions in this area and others have been a secret over the past several decades.
While it’s not something that decent folks ought to be gloating over, it’s also not something that most people- especially those who’ve spent years working on their behalf- and who have warned them of the consequences, are likely to have a great deal of sympathy over.
As the old saying goes, some people have to learn the hard way- if at all.
I’m with Kos and with Cibil.
Cibil stated it very well…..the Trump voters in Appalachia purposely chose not to understand or connect their voting habits to their future outcome. Ignorant and stubborn. For many years now, voters in WV, KY, AR, and OH turned against the Democratic party and voted against their best interests….and now I’m supposed to feel sorry for them losing ground? How do you like your Obamacare now? Get ready to lose it.
Oh yeah, coal miners….coal is going to make you rich and Trump is making ‘merica great again! Good luck with that.
Instead of donating to Planned Parenthood in Cincinnati as I have done for many years, I’m diverting it to PP in my blue state. As the GOP lawmakers always say, “Keep your legs closed”.
Finally to FAIR, Santa is dumping lots of coal in your stocking this year. Got any other blue pundits you would like to take down? I’m sure the Trumpsters will line your pockets with gold!
Before denigrating anyone, it’s important to step into their shoes to see things from their perspective; in this case, to examine why those people may be “ignorant and stubborn.” I blame the mainstream media. No doubt these people (like so many others in this country, unfortunately) took what they were being told at face value and acted solely on that (mis)information. Because they’re struggling to make ends meet, they don’t have the time or energy to delve deeper into issues to seek out the truth… which is what the powers-that-shouldn’t-be count on.
So, if we’re serious about “making America great again” (sorry), we need to focus on taking down the propaganda arm of government- the corporate mainstream media apparatus, by exposing them as the liars they are. This has been FAIR’s mission from the start. Think about that the next time you want to decry FAIR in (knee-jerk?) defense of Daily Kos.
Tsk, tsk, TJ,
Playing the Lecturer-in-chief on this site is not going to pay FAIR’s bills, but do rant on if it makes you feel like a big person.
What a hoot….”propaganda arm of government..corporate mainstream media apparatus”. The 60’s called…they want their worn slogans back.
Two quick thoughts:
1. I think you’d have to agree that “punitive glee of a medieval executioner” really is over the top.
2. It’s worth mentioning that Kos got a lot of heat on his own site for the post.
You’ve got a point there–there’s no evidence that medieval executioners took anywhere near the pleasure in their work that Moulitsas expressed at the thought of aging coal miners being unable to afford healthcare.
I’m not sure if you meant that to be some crushing slammer against the gentlest rebuke possible or just airily dismissive. It succeeds at neither.
Given that the pain associated with medieval execution (hanging?, decapitation?) was probably fairly brief, perhaps you should have said “the punitive glee of a medieval torturer”
One thing not being said here is that we need to remember that Kos purged the Berniecrats from his site back in March. He’s part of the why we’re in this situation, so it’s smug and disingenuous for him to now blame the voters for not going along with his corporate golden girl after she stole the Democratic primaries.
So KOS is a POS, that’s for sure.
However, another part of me takes a sort of middle road on this. I’d like to see everybody get exactly the kind of government they deserve. NOT out of spite, but out of a belief in self-determination. More and more, I’m coming to the conclusion that this country has become too big and too politically diverse to govern as a unitary whole.
The folks in Appalachia, Alabama, and Arkansas -I don’t agree with the way they want to live, but frankly that’s why I don’t live there. Here in California, we have different ideas about how to live, and I seriously would like to see us declare independence.
Let them have theocracy if that’s what they want there. Let them impose the Christian version of Sharia Law. They can have “right to work for less” laws, coathanger abortions, pickup trucks with gun racks, and separate bathrooms for anyone they choose. Let them keep Duck Dynasty and Nashville. They can teach kids creation myths and abstinence. If they want to die in the streets when they’re old and sick, who am I to tell them they don’t have that freedom?
And we can have socialized medicine and free tuition. And you’ll be able to go into pot cafe and smoke a fat joint without worrying about police raids. And if you overdose on something (not pot, because you can’t overdose on that), we’ll TREAT you instead of putting you in jail like they do in civilized countries! For free, of course. We’ll keep the best universities, the tech industry and 60% of the world’s biotech. We’ll keep Hollywood, and yes the porn industry too (now that California has wisely rejected the stupid mandatory condom law). But our kids will know all about condoms if they want to use them, and if all else fails then abortion will be there -free and on demand. For 14 year olds. Yes, without their parents’ consent, dammit, as Californians including myself voted for THREE friggin times and we don’t want to fight that battle again thank you very much! And we’ll be able to marry anyone we darn well please. And every child will be educated in English and Espanol and our borders will be open for PEOPLE but well-regulated for Capital, because we do want to protect jobs. And we’ll put the world on notice that the 6th largest economy in the world will only sign free trade deals if they match our stringent labor and environmental standards. Otherwise, no iphone or Viagra for you!
Amen! I always enjoy your insightful comments.
“He’s part of the why we’re in this situation, ”
I would argue that people like him are PRIMARILY (if not ENTIRELY) why we’re in this situation
It was precisely this elitist, arrogant, callus attitude toward disenfranchised working people that handed Trump the White House.
But many Democrats STILL obviously don’t get it — and probably never will.
And as far as California declaring independence: Go for it — and don’t forget to shut the door on the way out!
I’m sure it will be difficult, but the rest of us will find a way to survive without the likes of intellectual giants such as Ronald Reagan, Nancy Pelosi, Diane Feinstein, Arnold Schwarzeneggar and the Kardashians.
It will be difficult, but that’s OK. Scotland and Catalonia are further along in the process, and they’re still struggling. But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try. There’s already a serious campaign to put something on the ballot.
Most of those people you mention, by the way, represent the past. Not that the present and the future is perfect. But even the Gavin Newsoms and Kamala Harris’s of the world will probably do a better job. Not perfect, but better. But that’s OK. Self-determination, both for us and for you. Again, this isn’t meant to be spiteful, my sarcastic comments notwithstanding.
Well, there is always Jerry Brown, who seems to represent the ghost of Christmas past present and future: the gift that keeps on giving.
We can always hope that he does not run for President (again)
And Pelosi and Feinstein, two Demosaurs who also never disappear, even after the comet has cratered and laid waste to the Democratic landscape.
Brown’s done after 2018. Actually, at one point he was pretty good. Sometime between when he ran for president and when he re-launched his political career, he became a shill for cops and developers. Feinstein won’t run for another term. Pelosi won’t be far behind.
I thought Jerry Brown was good when he was dating Linda Ronstadt (back in the late 70’s) but that may have just been because I thought highly of Linda Ronstadt and figured anyone who dated her could not be all bad.
Brown was actually done in the late 80’s. He had a regular radio show and described himself, with some frequency, as a “recovering politician.” Sometime, in the 90’s he fell off the wagon. He’s become the Boris Yeltsin of California politics.
And actually, technically, :”most” of the people I mentioned are still very much impacting the present, even if you take the “Kardashians as only one person.
Voter A votes for self-destruction. Self-destruction wins. Voter A gets what Voter A voted for. Why should I feel sorry for person A?
He is calling *Dayly Kos* the left… Feels like i have struck gold, how to mine it..(for values of gold equalling making a point)
https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/5iiun8/daily_kos_founder_gleefully_celebrates_coal/db8giwu/
What most people are missing, nowhere NEAR a majority of people anywhere voted for Trump. Barely 15% of the population did!!! This is just stupid from all directions to take a ‘won’ election in any form, as anything other than a minority’s views. Please look up population numbers vs. voting age population vs. actual voters, before lumping everyone together.
First of all, your math is a bit off. DT won the votes of about 19% of the country, even if you count every man, woman, and infant living in the US, citizen or not. More importantly, though, this whole argument is a retread of every losing campaign in history. Elections are always an imperfect measurement of sentiment, because not everyone votes. But I can’t think of a better way. There are certainly better ways to run elections than the way we do in America, but it’s almost impossible to come up with a system that results in a candidate getting 50% of the entire population.
But…..the candidate who gets the most votes SHOULD be the winner. Just think what a different world we would live in with President Gore for 8 years instead of W
Not as much as one might think. We think of the Iraq War as something W did, when in reality it was one continuous project of US hegemony that lasted from Bush I right up through Obama.
Most people don’t remember this, but in the last days of the Gulf War, as American troops were closing in, Saddam fired some missiles with chemical weapons into the open desert, and then took some more missiles *without* chemical weapons, and fired them into Israel, hitting a couple of apartment buildings in Tel Aviv. The message was very clear: come any closer and I will put the two together. At that point Bush I had to abandon his goals of regime change for the moment.
For the next 8 years, it was up to Bill Clinton to “soften up” Iraq for round two. Clinton’s bombers systematically destroyed any ability for Iraq to defend itself, as well as its civilian infrastructure. The sanctions helped spread disease and hunger in the population, ultimately killing some 500,000 children, which war criminal Madeleine Albright said was “worth it.”
The overthrow phase of the war was left up to W, but I’m not sure it would have been any different with Al Gore.
That said, I was willing to go out and take to the streets for Al Gore -for a man I did not vote for. Because, you know, democracy and all that. Such as it exists in America. But you know who put a stop to all that? Al Gore. Well, him, and the complacent public. But he went around and told every liberal senator who was thinking of supporting Barbara Lee’s resolution to look into the election, to let it go.
That tells you something about Al Gore. It was more important for him to not rock the system, than it was even to become president. No, I don’t think things would have been all that different if we had Al Gore as president.
Well, “nowhere NEAR a majority of people anywhere voted for Clinton either”
She got a couple percent more of those who voted (48% to 46% for trump), but still not even a majority of those who voted.
Since only about 55% of the voting age population voted, Clinton got votes from about 26% of the total voting age population. Trump got 25%.
When you put it that way, it doesn’t sound very impressive no matter which candidate you are talking about, does it?
But of course, whether you use 48% to 46% or 26% to 25%, it is simply a distinction without a difference since the Presidential election is not decided by the popular vote but by the electoral vote.
That’s reality, good or bad.
You people are SO easy… and God knows I loves me some liberal aghastness over the angst and distress of people so f’ing dumb that they voted to put a lying, pussy-grabbing buffoon in the White House… almost as much as I love those Trump voting dummies’ angst and distress. Maybe more.
Anyway, as I’ve said elsewhere, its a good bet the GOP won’t dare touch anyone’s healthcare until they can put their own name on something that gives people about the same benefits or more, because they won’t dare take away the 26 yr old rule, the acceptance of pre-existing conditions, or jack up prices much more. That’s pretty much common sense, not that common sense always applies to the GOP. So all you dear sweet bleeding hearts can stop wringing your hands and gnashing your teeth, and do something more productive, like organizing locally and helping the rest of us hold the DNC responsible for getting the party back on its feet.
Time will tell, but my guess is that StPete may be ‘misunderstimating’ the craveness of Republcians and their corporate media stooges.
Or not. Both the Democrat and Republican parties have become so corrupted, they’re sinking themselves into irrelevance. This election opened the eyes of a lot of people. I predict 2020 will look considerably different in terms of both the election process AND the parties running in it.
Looks like we have lit the bonfires of war, and the trolls are climbing out from under their bridges in droves.
On the one hand it sure has livened up the response board here. Time was when this area was barley alive and we would have maybe 5 responses in a month.
On the other hand, working in the custodial dept, it looks like we are going to need a whole lot more portapottys round here for all the ‘crap’ being spewed.
One thing is clear though, the Lame Stream Media did it’s job well of selling that false equivalency garbage. If the Republicans took their voters out back, started shooting them then dumped the bodies into a mass grave, the lame stream media would call the Democrats “equal” for trying to stop it. Never have I seen such utter bullshit as ‘Hillary is evil because: Emails’ where as Trump “was good because: We say so” and the public bought it lock, stock and barrel.
KOS was giving a reaming for his bitter and foolish outcry, and it was deserved. As we see now it allows the uber-right trolls to paint all sides with the same brush of ‘evil’ in spite of it being no such thing. The current crop of nut jobs in the White are ready to dismantle the entire works of Obama, calling it “Fair and Balanced”, while the other side is still standing in shock.
As for the Minority report on ‘voters’, this is nothing new at all, and has been so since the 1920’s when there was the greatest surge of ‘voters’ but at no time in the history of the U.S. has the percent of Voter turn out even been over 50% of the total population. In all the time I have been voting, there were times when I voted anyone else but the two parties, and the Lame stream media with it’s troll did nothing but berate us for it. So I seriously doubt this is going to change as long we have Faux Snooze Nitwork busy making ‘UnFair and Imbalanced Reporting” the norm.
In conclusion; far too many taking glee in coming in to bayonet the dead and claim a hero’s medal for facing the enemy.
I was Sanders supporter who stayed home last month, but if it were to come to a choice between hard working coal miners and whiny little a-holes like those who post on and read the Daily Kos, I’ll side with the miners. They should all be very ashamed of themselves.
I think that we should rejoice that Republicans are getting what they wanted. They knew their health insurance comes from the Affordable Care Act and voted for a party–and a man–who promised to do away with it. We should be happy that they will succeed in their votes.
I don’t feel bad. They’re the idiots that don’t know their asses from their elbows. Reap the whirlwind, you troglodytes.
I’m not seeing the problem here, or why this is a bad thing. Coal miners who voted for Trump are getting exactly what they asked for and deserve. I feel zero empathy for these people. These are people who voted for a man who promised to fuck over and hurt other Americans who were different from themselves. These are people who chose to embrace ignorance, people who voted to drag the country backwards. People who made it clear they don’t give a shit about other Americans who are not them, even to the point they want to see other Americans being hurt and persecuted. So tell me again why I should feel bad for these people, or not feel amused to see them reaping the fruits of the trees they have sown? Yeah, the KOS is a total is a total leftist-moonbat rag, but even moonbats make a good points from time to time. The libtards who still want to reach out to these deliberate rubes are half the reason I will never vote Democrat.