The Charlie Rose show–which airs mostly on public television stations–has mostly skipped the protests in Wisconsin, one of the biggest labor stories of the past decade. This is not a total surprise–Rose seems to identify with The Bosses more than with the workers–so it was interesting to see how he finally approached the subject on his March 2 show.
The first guest was Time‘s Joe Klein.He seems toidentify with public sector workers, he knows they’re not getting rich, but he doesn’t like their unions: “Public employees’ unions are a pretty questionable proposition,” as he put it. The solution in Wisconsinis “to bring those pension plans and healthcare more in line with the rest of the public.”
The next guest: far right Fox News hostMike Huckabee. He makes some jokesabout raising the retirement age, then zeroes in on the pension problem:
So what I think the governor in Wisconsin is doing is what he has to do. A teacher in Wisconsin puts in $1 for the retirement fund. The fund puts in $57. I don’t know too much people who have a retirement plan.
That would be a remarkably lopsided pension plan. Where does that number come from? There seems to be little trace of it in the debate over Wisconsin. Some commenters at the right-wing Free Republic message board caught Huckabee’s appearance and were excited to have a new anti-teacher talking point–only no one could seem to scare up data to support his claim.
General information about contribution rates for Wisconsin teachers can be found here–and you see nothing at allthat would resembleHuckabee’s formulation.And the Wisconsin pension system is relatively healthy, for the record–making this an odd focus of concern to begin with.
More importantly–what did Charlie Rose do when a guest made such a remarkable claim? He backed him up:
There is it seems to me a huge anger over the fact that people in the private sector see people in the public sector being able to retire with extraordinary benefits because they opt out at age 65.
People are outraged by public employees retiring at 65 with cushy benefits? This is not at all supported by recent polling data. You know what would help clarify things? Rose could consider anon-airclarification or correction. (Huckabee’s been doing a lot of “misspeaking” as of late.) Or he could challenge guests when they make such bizarre claims.
Or–here’s an idea!–when the biggest labor story in some time is dominating the news, how about having some labor guests on the show?
I’ve been trying to write a post on this subject myself, but have been unable to verify ANY of the claims being made in the media, pretty much by anyone. I’ve looked at the pension plan details that you liked here before, but they are totally different from what everyone says the contribution rates are, and I can’t find any source that clarifies how the pension system actually works, or if there is some other deal where the “employer contribution” part is being paid somehow differently, etc.
What is most important note, though, is that the total pension contribution amount for general employees according to that pension agreement is 11.8%, which is LESS THAN the contribution amount for Social Security, which is 12.4%.
Since these employees are exempt from Social Security, this pension contribution is their form of “Social Security”, and if the pension agreement is correct, its actually costs LESS than if they were contributing to Social Security instead.
As I said, I haven’t been able to lock down enough info on this tom complete a final analysis that I can stand by, but if you have any additional info on exactly how the pension system works I’d like to know it.
Furthermore, what is obvious is that the reporters covering this topic completely suck. All they are doing is passing on talking points and referring to them as though they were facts, which is just absurd, even NPR is doing this. We need someone to simply call or go to whoever is overseeing the pension system and clarify exactly who contributes what and how. You would think that this would be an easy task, but having dug into the issue for a week trying to track down these facts I have yet to find ANY verifiable information being reported!
Peter, this might put things in proper perspective:
http://www.democracynow.org/2011/3/3/really_bad_reporting_in_wisconsin_media
And Huckabee doesn’t know too many people with a retirement plan?
Maybe he meant he doesn’t know too many people who *provide* a pension for their employees?
Just a thought. He is, after all, from Arkansas – alternatively known as “Walmart World”.
Huckabee’s statement is not very relevant even if it was correct. My state (Florida) puts 10% of my salary into retirement and I don’t have to put in any. The governor wants to make me put in 5% and I assume cut the state’s contribution by that amount. This means that he wants to cut my pay by 5%, relative to what it is now. Politically I guess it sounds better to say make workers put money into retirement than cut their salaries, but it’s the same thing.
rationalrevolution – I don’t think Wisconsin employees are exempt from Social Security.
The point well made by David Cay Johnston is that public workers aren’t receiving pension payments from the government, it is entirely their own earned deferred wages which are directed towards their retirement, which was negotiated by collective bargaining.
http://www.truth-out.org/really-bad-reporting-wisconsin-who-contributes-public-workers-pensions68225
The erroneous claim by the Right that they should “contribute more” is simply code for reducing their wages, nothing else.
An opinion on Charlie Rose: I come so close to destroying my TV whenever I watch his show that I’ve had to stop watching, which is frustrating because he somehow manages to get very knowledgeable & influential guests. How, I don’t know, since he interrupts more often than not in order to put his own words into someone’s mouth. Like I said, I end up screaming at the TV.
All of Huckabee’s comments of late have came right out of his hind quarters, where he keeps his head! He has became nothing but a whore for money – very typical and predictable! We always knew his religion was fake! I’m shocked at Charlie not being more curious about the facts in this situation, especially knowing how much Huckabee has been lying lately! I strongly urge Rose to have another show on this subject and dig himself out of the hole he so willingly stepped in! I don’t watch Rose anymore and it just because of his clear indifference to the facts!
Ya, when Charlie rose has on one of his Wall Street buddies, he looks like he’s having a wet dream.
We are out of money folks .Period
And how did Wisconsin get “out of money”? Did it happen when the Governor was County Executive and gave his chief of staff a 26% wage increase while bypassing the Board to do so? Or when he gave an aid a $20,000 raise also bypassing the board? Or when he as Governor gave a $140 million in tax cuts to corporations, and then claimed a $137 million deficit which he would correct at the expense of teachers and other public workers? Of course these corp. guys are going to “make” jobs, right? When Verizon was given a subsidy of 600 million to create jobs, they create only 200. Do the math. Same for a Yahoo deal that cost millions per job. Yes indeed we are broke, how could it be otherwise as our leaders jam money into corporate pockets in that tight little circle of love that has become a revolving door between government and corporations.
All of that and more, Carol. You know, I was willing to let a jackass like Huckabee slide for a long time–I figured he wasn’t all that stupid, and after all, he had no chance of becoming President. But this story, and the incredible interview he did with a Right-wing drone last week has me wondering. Is it time to declare that Huck is either a drunken tosspot, or maybe even a hard-core drug user, or perhaps there’s a skeleton ready to lurch out of his closet? Or, maybe I was wrong originally, and Huck’s just another ignorant, self-aggrandizing Right-wing Christer who’s in it for the money? Run Huck run! Sarah and Huck in 2012! Now that would be a team, eh? Just looking at them on the toob would cause temporary, instant, mind-locking stupidity.
Bloomberg:
â┚¬Ã…“The U.S. government is not broke,â┚¬Ã‚ said Marc Chandler, global head of currency strategy for Brown Brothers Harriman & Co. in New York. â┚¬Ã…“There’s no evidence that the market is treating the U.S. government like it’s broke.â┚¬Ã‚Â
The U.S. today is able to borrow at historically low interest rates, paying 0.68 percent on a two-year note that it had to offer at 5.1 percent before the financial crisis began in 2007. Financial products that pay off if Uncle Sam defaults aren’t attracting unusual investor demand. And tax revenue as a percentage of the economy is at a 60-year low, meaning if the government needs to raise cash and can summon the political will, it could do so.
A person, company or nation would be defined as â┚¬Ã…“brokeâ┚¬Ã‚ if it couldn’t pay its bills, and that is not the case with the U.S. Despite an annual budget deficit expected to reach $1.6 trillion this year, the government continues to meet its financial obligations, and investors say there is little concern that will change.
Financial markets dispute the Republican’s conclusion. The cost of insuring for five years a notional $10 million in U.S. government debt is $45,830, less than half the cost in February 2009, at the height of the financial crisis, according to data provider CMA data. That makes U.S. government debt the fifth safest of 156 countries rated and less likely to suffer default than any major economy, including every member of the G20.
â┚¬Ã…“I think it’s very misleading to call a country â┚¬Ã‹Å“broke,’â┚¬Ã‚ said Nariman Behravesh, chief economist for IHS Global Insight in Lexington, Massachusetts. â┚¬Ã…“We’re certainly not bankrupt like Greece.â┚¬Ã‚Â
George Magnus, senior economic adviser for UBS Investment Bank in London, says the U.S. dollar’s status as the global economy’s unit of account means the U.S. can’t go broke.
In addition to accepting low yields on two-year notes, creditors are willing to lend the U.S. money for longer periods at interest rates that are below long-term averages. Ten-year U.S. bonds carry a rate of 3.5 percent, compared with an average 5.4 percent since 1990. And U.S. debt is more attractive than comparable securities from the U.K., which has moved aggressively to rein in government spending. U.K. 10-year bonds offer a 3.6 percent yield.
â┚¬Ã…“You are never broke as long as there are those who will buy your debt and lend money to you,â┚¬Ã‚ said Edward Altman, a finance professor at New York University’s Stern School of Business who created the Z-score formula that calculates a company’s likelihood of bankruptcy.
â┚¬Ã…“To say your debts exceed your income is not â┚¬Ã‹Å“broke,’â┚¬Ã‚ said Tony Fratto, former White House and Treasury Department spokesman in the George W. Bush administration.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/print/2011-03-07/bonds-show-why-boehner-saying-we-re-broke-is-figure-of-speech.html
Helen we are broke .Play with figures all you want.We are broke plus a couple trillion.Or to quote dr evil Ka zillions.
Now for Huck…… Don’t know why you libs are such haters to people not really on the radar(Palin).While you let our incompetent “duffus duo” of BAM ,and BITEME slide by.
Anyway as far as the figure he quoted.It took only a moment to do the math,and ignore the smoke screen figures thrown up to attack him. The figures he quoted are entirely possible because the Wisconsin retirement system pays its share of the retirement contribution ,AND picks up the employees contribution.So it is quite possible to get $57 for just $1.In some cases probably even more than that because some gov. agencies pay even more as kickers or bonuses that get lumped on top of the individual and the government employer contribution,usually to police and fire. And the entire contribution is not taxable.
Workers put in all of their pension money. The state does not contribute anything. The workers get their negotiated salary minus the pension amount, which is supposed to be forewarded by the state into the worker’s pension account. Sometimes the states do not foreward the pension part of the salary (fully fund) the pension accounts and get way behind, causing a pension problem. However, the important point is that the state does not kick in any part of the worker’s pension; the workers pay it all out of their salaries. Thus, requiring workers ‘pay a greater portion of their salaries into their pensions’ seems to amount to a salary cut.
speaking of NPR…..Hope all of next weeks articles deal with Mr Shillers anti semitic statements. That and the senators who have fled their states to escape voting.Come on you writers of FAIR.Work on the spin.Can you imagine if all the RS had fled Washington during the healthcare vote?Or if a conservative leader on FOX said something like what Shiller said?It would be on every news show 24-7 Hyp hyp hyp hypocrates.Come on FAIR do your job
Just saw a figure that blew my mind. 7oo million went to Wisconsin from the stym.Guess how much the p sector unions got?600 million!Can you say buying votes?War chest?
The perpetually confused Mikey e writes “Just saw a figure that blew my mind. 7oo million went to Wisconsin from the stym.Guess how much the p sector unions got?600 million!Can you say buying votes?War chest?”
Reality:
In 2009, Wisconsin received $680 million from the federal stimulus package where it temporarily saved Wisconsin jobs. These jobs involved teachers, police officers and firefighters. In addition, it provided an additional $6 billion to local governments, businesses and individuals in Wisconsin.
I can’t cite specific numbers for Wisconsin, but nationally, only one out of every three government workers are union members.
Helen I wish sometimes I didn’t read your “come backs”.It made me do a little more research.My figures as part of the stym bill are correct as far as it goes.But there is more. i just spent 15 minutes reading the complete breakdown of funds to wisconsin and i now am officially ready to vomit.Looks like a massive liberal wish list. Really unbelievable.How we lost our country on the way to the forum i will never know.
Michael “7oo million went to Wisconsin from the stym.”
Me: “Wisconsin received $680 million from the federal stimulus package where it temporarily saved Wisconsin jobs. These jobs involved teachers, police officers and firefighters. In addition, it provided an additional $6 billion…” Note that the total is $6.68 billion.
Michael “My figures as part of the stym bill are correct as far as it goes.”
Me: Yes, they are, if “correct as far as it goes,” means being off by a factor of 100.