If you feel like there hasn’t been enough attention paid to the fact that the democratic movements in the Arab world are undermining the power of U.S. elites to have troublemakers tortured and/or killed, rest assured that Newsweek‘s Christopher Dickey has you covered this week (6/12/11):
Among American spies there’s more than a little nostalgia for the bad old days. You know, back before dictators started toppling in the Middle East; back when suspected bad guys could be snatched off a street somewhere and delivered to the not-so-tender mercies of interrogators in their home countries; back when thuggish tyrants, however ugly, were at least predictable.
It’s not a philosophical thing, just a practical one. Confronted by the cold realities of this year’s Arab Spring, many intelligence and counterterrorism professionals now see major dangers looming near at hand, while the good news–a freer, fairer, more equitable and stable Arab world–remains somewhere over the horizon. “All this celebration of democracy is just bullshit,” says one senior intelligence officer who’s spent decades fighting terrorism and finds his job getting harder, not easier, because of recent developments. “You take the lid off and you don’t know what’s going to happen. I think disaster is lurking.”
Dickey uses Egypt as one example, explaining that at one point dictator Hosni Mubarak was making plans to hand over power to feared intelligence chief Omar Suleiman. The U.S. supported that idea, but Egyptians weren’t especially keen on handing over power to Mubarak’s torture chief. Losing this vital link is apparently bad news for U.S. policymakers–though Dickey undercuts the point when he recalls this history:
The “rendition” program continued in close cooperation with Suleiman after 9/11, but the Bush administration evidently pushed hard for the kind of intelligence it wanted rather than the kind it needed. One captured Qaeda operative, Ibn al-Shaykh al-Libi, was tortured by the Egyptians until he confessed there were operational links between his organization and Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein, although in fact there were no such links. “They were killing me,” al-Libi was quoted as telling the FBI later. “I had to tell them something.”
The premise of the article is that maintaining close ties to Mubarak and his ilk is vital to U.S. interests, and that the current upheaval is bad news. This example would seem to offer rather compelling evidence to the contrary.
Maybe Dickey should ask some of his fellow journalists (if you can describe him as such) who’ve been tortured under those regimes what they think of his premise here.
He might reconsider his views, if he’s capable of putting himself in their place.
Admittedly, that’s a pretty lousy bet, isn’t it?
I realize this is only an extract, but my understanding from the quotations provided is that it is NOT Dickey who’s nostalgic for what he himself calls the “bad old days” but rather his interview subjects. The second citation does not undercut the premise of the article, which the commentator unfortunately seems to have missed, that”intelligence” resulting from torture is NOT only wrong, it’s useless.
“intelligence” resulting from torture is useless for learning the truth, but it’s not at all useless for what these people are looking for – support for the lies they want to market. For what they want, to get people to confess whatever they need confessed, it’s great.
Anyone who actually thinks useful information can be had from torture is deluded. It only works in fiction and all the time, but not in reality. Torture is a terror tool and to keep the torturers happy.
I agree with Deb van Iderstine, I’d change the second to last sentence to this. “The premise of the article is that (certain intelligence experts think) maintaining close ties to Mubarak and his ilk is vital to U.S. interests, and that the current upheaval is bad news. “
“….. while the good news–a freer, fairer, more equitable and stable Arab world–remains somewhere over the horizon. ”
These are a tribal, Muslim people seeking to implement THEIR tribe’s or coalition’s brand of theocratic rule . “Democracy is an anathema to them. Their “revolutions” are political power-grabs. Freedom… yeah, right. The out-of-power tribes and clans want to be free to suppress the others, collect taxes, graft and “respect” instead of paying the same.
Their life style consists of suppressing women and members of other tribes and sects that hold different views of Islam but what they really hate are infidels who draw pictures of their founder or enter their territories to interfere with their war games. They murder, blow up airplanes and buildings to make that point. Meanwhile, buy their oil at a fair price and leave them alone. These are people working hard to become extinct, left to their own devices, they’ll accomplish that; let’s not interfere.
Hey bob. Brown v board wasn’t that long ago. We’re not all that great ourselves. But America is a pretty sweet place to live anyway. Who are we to write off other cultures as hopeless?
God Bob…that is a sad litany.Hope your are wrong.
Yeah yeah America is the new torture capital of the world.And it used to be even better for us and our beastly ways.Are we not the country that just eviscerated itself over a form of torture called waterboarding?
What in God’s name are you talking about, Bob? All Arabs? All Muslims? Your last paragraph is complete bullshit–“war games?” And you might want to consider some other places that are working real hard to become extinct. You sound like an American, so you don’t have to look far. Their cultures have been around for thousands of years, and ours? About three hundred years. And with our country actually taking jerk-offs like Michelle Bachmann and Newt Gingrich seroiusly, I think your attention might be better directed towards home sweet home.
Carter and Tim I have spent time in the middle east.There is no comparison to America.There are endemic problems and violence in the Arab world that would make the average Americans hair turn white.Of course lets not make a completely sweeping statement.But it is pretty bad .In fact both of you are perfect examples of the difference.You knock your own country and except for me answering you- no body cares.Try that in some arab countries that you believe are no different.Play a movie here making fun of Christ(monty Python’s life of Brian)that I watched last night, and we all laugh.Want to try Life of Mohammed?I dare ya.We can have a guy climbing out of a well (5th imama)and he gets hit in the head with a rotten water mellon thrown by a rabbi.Yuk yuk yuk…HUSSAIN CHOP!!!Yeah good luck with that