At Electronic Intifada, Ali Abunimah challenges the skewed history coming from Ethan Bronner in the New York Times (5/15/11). In trying to explain the context for the recent Palestinian protests, Bronner wrote:
After Israel declared independence on May 15, 1948, armies from neighboring Arab states attacked the new nation; during the war that followed, hundreds of thousands of Palestinians fled or were driven from their homes by Israeli forces. Hundreds of Palestinian villages were also destroyed. The refugees and their descendants remain a central issue of contention in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.
Abunimah replied:
This is standard Zionist propaganda that bears little resemblance to the facts. The ethnic cleansing of Palestine by Zionist forces began in late 1947, so that by 15 May, 1948, hundreds of thousands of Palestinians had already been expelled from their villages and cities before a single soldier from any Arab army had intervened. The exodus from, for example, Jaffa began in early 1948, after Zionist terrorists belonging to the Stern Gang set off a massive car bomb destroying the Jaffa municipality building on 4 January. (This is all well-documented in books by right-wing Israeli historian Benny Morris, among others.) Many villages in the north of Palestine were also depopulated around that time.
Abunimah adds that the Deir Yassin massacre happened in April 1948—before Israel declared its independence.
This skewed history seems to be fairly common. NBC‘s Richard Engel presented it this way on the Today show on Monday (5/17/01):
What sparked this is Palestinians were commemorating what they call the Nakba, it’s the Arabic word for “catastrophe,” which is how many Palestinians describe the creation of the state of Israel in 1948.
The “catastrophe” is not the establishment of the state of Israel, it’s the ethnic cleansing of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians that accompanied that establishment. It’s an important distinction.
This is to be expected from the institutional media of a nation that ignores or misrepresents its own oppressive history at every turn, isn’t it?
There’s not much difference between these lies and those told about an ethnic cleansing of native peoples which closely parallels what occurred, and continues, in Palestine, is there?
The US’ actions may have been “politically corrected” in the acceptable history books to include a morally barren mea culpa, but the underlying prejudice still exists, doesn’t it (see “Geronimo, bin Laden codename”).
And no number of casinos will change that.
This is standard anti-Zionist propaganda. A reference to “the Deir Yassin massacre” (which historians other than the reputable Wikipedia have concluded was simply a battle with casualties on both sides), but no mention of the many pogroms carried out against the Jews by Arabs in Palestine pre-1948.
Oh, and no mention, of course, of the alliance between Palestinian leader Al-Husseini and Hitler before and during World War II.
And let’s not talk about the nearly one million Jews dirven out of Arab countries after 1948.
And why are the “refugees and their descendants…a central issue of contention”? Why are the children and grandchildren of Palestinians considered refugees? Why is there a special refugee agency only for the Palestinians, an agency whose goal is to prevent the assimilation of Palestinians in neighboring Arab countries?
Why is the “right of return” given so much attention? Because if the so-called refugees were allowed to return to Israel, the country would no longer be a Jewish state – instead it would be added to the dozens of existing Arab and Muslim states.
It is abundantly clear that the only obstacle to peace in the Middle East is the steadfast and bloody refusal of the Arab world to accept a Jewish state, and it’s incredible that FAIR is so staggeringly biased in its coverage of the conflict.
Mr. Anspach is right, there were casualties on both sides: Over 100-110 Palestinians dead, about 1/2 of the women and children. And 4 Irgun (a Zionist paramilitary terrorist group) commandos. This ratio of “casualties on both sides”, and the large number of civilian casualties in particular, seems to be a common outcome of Israeli “battles”.
that should read “…half of them women and children.”
Dear Peter:
Nice work avoiding 99% of the issues I raised. By the way, I’m a long-time FAIR subscriber.
Yours,
William
Great Blog William A.
And lets please remember that if the day the Israelis took up living on so called Palestinian lands is called “the catastrophy”…What is the day called when Arab countries took over 85% of so called historic Palestinian lands never to be spoken of again?The 80% BIGGER catastrophy?These arab countries are not even in the discussion to return those lands.Why?
All anger,all warfare,all terrorist actions,all hatred is directed at the country with the smallest spit of land.Maybe the palestinians, and the world should try a new tact.Bring those arab countries into the discussion and see what they are willing to give.So far that would be nothing.The only ones willing to talk seems to be those horrible jews.
@michael e: Do the Palestinians go around telling you what to be cranky about, what ramblings to post extolling Trump’s many virtues? No? Then why do you feel it’s appropriate for you to tell them what to do? They feel Israel is intruding on their homeland; if they wanna make an issue of that, and not make an issue of other things, they can.
Consider this: Suppose, I start living on your porch that let’s say makes up only 5% of your house. So you complain to the police. Instead of the police doing something about it they, rather condescendingly, say: “Well, we’re not gonna do anything about this until you worry about the rest of your house. Repaint the bathroom, fix that toilet in the basement that won’t stop running, pick up the dog poop, and maybe we’ll do something about this guy on your porch. Maybe. But not until we feel you’re ready. Geez, it’s only 5% of your house; what’s the big deal, Mr. Sensitive?”
Think ya might be a little bitter about something like that? Maybe you might start thinkin: what does the condition of the rest of my house have to do with this goofball trespasser on my porch?
And for the record, I don’t support the Palestinian cause. Or the Israeli cause, either. But I am a extremely tired of the continued conflict and a little tired with your distractive argument that you keep trotting out. Oh well, they lost more land to other nations that aren’t Israel– guess that makes everything OK, then. Carry on, guys… Have a good time attacking refguee camps… What’s one more angry young man who blows himself up and takes along a few innocent men, women, and children?… Heck, we here in the US don’t even have to think about this never-ending tragedy until the Palestinians make some complaints that are more to our liking, right?
Ali Abunimah: “This is standard Zionist propaganda that bears little resemblance to the facts…”
William Anspach’s reply: “This is standard anti-Zionist propaganda.” (After which comes the usual pseudo-rational and obfuscating drivel.)
Ladies and Gentlemen, introducing the Pee-wee Herman of Hasbara, i.e. “I know you are but what am I.”
It’s also noted that William Anspach lies by asserting that that Peter was “avoiding 99% of the issues raised”. I’m pleased to see how Mr. Hart thoroughly exposed William Anspach’s sleazy rationalizing of an Israeli massacre on top of the good work of the original article. Further scouring the Augean stable of Zionist blather here isn’t necessary.
John It may trouble you that i point out the obvious that nobody wishes to talk about. But it is the absurdity of it all that i am trying to get you to see.The seminal thing is the generated hatred of the jews.Let me put it to you plainly.The arab powers that be- do not care about a palestinian homeland.They have one goal barely hidden.Destruction of Israel and all jews.How do you deal with that?
Today our stupid stupid president asked for a return to 1967 boarders.What more can i say?
@michael e: No, it bothers me that you keep bringing up this point as if that makes it OK just to let Israel do whatever the heck it wants. Even assuming that your central idea is accurate– and I’m not sure that it is, by the way– it just boils down to 2 wrongs making a right. The Arabs hate the Jews over religion, so Israel can kill them indiscriminantly from time to time. This whole conflict isn’t about what you think it is, so just ignore those dead civilians on both sides. Yep, nothing to see here folks; move along. Talk about absurdity…
I’ll put it to you this way… Me and my brother would sometimes fight when we were kids. We could really go at it, too. Making all kinds of noise, breaking stuff, the whole nine yards. When our Dad would intervene after one the ones where we’d go overboard, he would just come in and crack our heads and start imposing peace. He didn’t care who was right, who was wrong, what was fair, what wasn’t– he just wanted peace and quiet. It wasn’t a perfect solution. But it quieted us down. I’m at that point with this conflict. The Palestinians don’t wanna recognize Israel? Though crap– they’re here and they ain’t going anywhere; you had your chance to fight a war and kick them out and ya lost; deal with it peacefully and knock off the terrorism. Israel doesn’t wanna let the Palestinians govern or re-settle? Tough crap– they’re here, same as you; you don’t come here in 1947 and start telling the locals what’s what without that hurting some feelings; deal with it peacefully and stop treating every Palestinian man, woman, and child as if they’re personally responsible.
Enough already. I don’t care who’s wrong or right; or what they’re motives are. As far as I’m concerned, niether side has clean hands, so they can just shut the eff up about it. I just want peace.
Well John the difference is that you loved your brother.I can not put it to you any other way…The arabs HATE the jews. Going back to their lovefest wih Hitler and far beyond.They want them dead.They did before Israel, and they do now.Arab children are taught ,and have been taught to hate.Obama acts as if the climate has changed.That now is the time for Israel to give all.To show their necks to a loving magnanimous Arab population.My God cant he see the Arab spring is nothing more than an affirmation and renewal of hatred?John you would say the Jews are no different.I know you are wrong.Jews there- hold eternal hope.Arabs eternal hatred. Absolutely both do wrong upon the other.But the cycle can only be broken by the Arabs.I want peace too.Believe me Israel does.But the price of Israel becoming weary of the hatred directed against them is simply death.Death john.Death!
@michael e: So the Arabs are completely devoid of humanity and consumed by hate? Each and every one of them? And every single Jew doesn’t hate anybody and Israel is just minding its own business when circumstances force their hand into killing women and children? That’s the assessment of the conflict in your eyes? There’s absolutely no geo-political or economic dimensions at all– it’s just hate, hate, hate, all on the part of those nasty Arabs? So if Israel gives ’em what-for with a few greivous violations of the laws of war, well… they had it comin’ right? That about the size of it for ya?
Sorry… just not that. This is the real word, pal. It ain’t black and white; there are only shades of gray and darker gray in this. Israel ain’t some innocent victim of those sub-human Arabs. Not by a long shot. And not by a long shot are the Palestinian terrorists innocent, either. Like I said before, nobody’s got clean hands in this, so they can shut the eff up about it. But to you, apparently, Israel does have the clean hands; or maybe they’re only clean in comparison to those filthy hate-filled Arabs?
Guess what? I still don’t care. I want peace. The nation of Israel can poop rainbows and pee ginger beer, and I still ain’t gonna say “Well, y’all go ahead with this pointless conflcit– you’re the good guys, after all.” I just want peace. And if that means Israel has to run some security risks– tough crap. They’re living with much the same risks right now in the midst of a continual conflict. How’s that working out? It sure doesn’t seem like being under constant threat of rocket attack or suicide bombing is a much better end state than the risks run by allowing refugee return and tolerating the other stumbling blocks to the peace process. When my Dad broke up the fights he wasn’t worried about who had the moral high ground and what security risks me and my brother were willing to accept. He didn’t care about that because it was for the greater good of the house that we shut up and stop fighting. I’m at that point. The international community needs to play Dad, impose a peace, and make it stick. A half-century of pointless conflict is long enough, in my opinion.
It is clear the two people do not want to and cannot live together.
Non-Muslims do not fair well and are treated as second class citizens in Muslim countries, so there is a reason for Jews or other religious minorities to want independence. Even non-devout Muslims can never rise above a certain level in Muslim countries … this is anti-human rights in my opinion.
Next, even if Palestinians leaving Israel was or could be called ethnic cleansing, there was equal ethnic cleansing when Jews were evicted from Egypt,Syria, Iraq, Iran, etc.
The commonality between almost all of the claims and arguments from the Palestinian side require that you only look at the situation from the Palestinian side and ignore the rights of Iraelis/Jews.
I think every year as this history gets more public and open the world sees the reality of Muslim countries and government and their anti-human rights and skewed arguments and point of view. the only reason that these stories even survive and are published is that it is somehow OK to attack certain minorities in the world, especially in the smaller closed world of Muslim countries.
That is a real shame that these countries and the few people with religious power in them can hold back the whole world and condemn their people to poverty repression and misery.
I agree with much of what Michael says. I believe we can only feel secure and safe about this region when these countries are cracked open, and secularized so that a small group of superstitious old relgious fanatics who care nothing for human rights are removed from power and expression for all, education and freedom prevail. As we did with Germany and fascism, and Japan and emperor worship, the radical Islamic cultures must learn to play well with others.
To this day is it illegal for jews to even exist in Saudi Arabia … It is absurd that support of the Palestinians has somehow gotten the label of Leftist or Liberal, Liberals have never supported tyranny and repression. This whole association has been a clever ruse to attack Liberalism on another front to repress people so fascism can continue to prevail and get us all fighting each other.
William Anspach, I’m curious as to why you don’t mention the fact that Israel continues to build on Palestinian land as an obstacle to peace?
If you listen to them you would be told that Palestinians are a created group identity and are really a fiction. It is interesting that though the right wing here constantly says that the corporate press here is “liberal” and unduly supports the Palestinians over the Israelis at every turn for any reason. The propaganda is so deep it is looked upon as “common wisdom” and an “axiomatic truth” it is so ingrained.
In the interests of transparency, it should be noted that I am the son of Syrian immigrants. What I find repugnant is not one-sided. Initiated, instigated, reacted, redacted ignorance of history or present has one, common, agenda-driven parent — Arab, Jew, Muslim, non-Muslim identification be damned. This about “me, not you” recognition and “you, not me” responsibility.
John, we’re in agreement on a lot. Security risks are not a future consideration; they are present, in the status quo, so where’s the risk? The facts we consider are facts we’ve been fed. My family is remarkably ecumenical, representing Orthodox Christians, Presbyterians, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Catholics, Lutherans, and Muslims. Our upbringing emphasized finding the common, building upon that to nurture relationships, to heed the better examples given for our religions, and to begin with respect and a certain deference to the other. I grew up with Jewish friends, one of whom I continue to play music (our common passion) with every Tuesday, and who, for 45 years is truly my brother.
Any argument in denial of this potential — in all parties — is BS at its core and, therefore, serves as enabling, codependent propaganda.
Danny Danon, an outspoken Likud lawmaker, said Obama’s call would “eventually remove the state of Israel from the map.”
This is what Israel fears. But, their support for the Religious Right, “the settlers” end-time view is the real danger to Israel. This makes a future land-war a distinct possibility.
As long as one Moslem nation has a nuclear device that can reach Tel Aviv, they should worry. Both Pakistan and Iran have such arms.
President Obama realizes this, but can’t confront our foreign policy mistakes of the past that began our “unholy” wars. This is where true reconciliation begins.
Clearly what a lot of people need to do is shut out the traditional media altogether and research the actual history for themselves. There’s a LOT of it that your television never talks about, and that is clearly by design.
How many people, for instance, are familiar with the Balfour Declaration of 1917 and all the details surrounding it? It’s a key document in this conflict. How many are aware that the UN never actually approved the partition plan, or that there was much concern about whether they even had the legal standing to do so? How many are aware that there were plenty of Jews who warned against dividing Palestine, because they knew it would lead to exactly what has been happening for over 60 years now? How many are aware of the difference between religious and political Zionism? Details and actual history are important.
If some other country invaded ours, leveled your neighborhood, killed a bunch of your friends and loved ones and started building their own houses where yours used to stand, it would piss you off. You might run, to save your own life and that of your family, and nobody with any sense of logic and reason would be able to blame you. Nor would they be able to blame you if you decided to stay and fight back. And if you chose the latter, supporters of the invasion would call you an insurgent, a militant, or even a terrorist, when all you’re really doing is trying to defend your home and your right to self-determination.
The government of Israel is not the least bit interested in peace. They never have been, because it doesn’t serve their lust for power, control and Palestinian land grabbing, which of course continues to this day. If Palestinians aren’t pissed off and fighting back, there’s no pretext to justify the continued theft of their land.
It’s not really rocket science. One just needs to look honestly.
William Anspach is right on. Peace is posible only if both sides review their history and admit wrongs. I would start with President Truman’s recognizing Israel on behalf of his mother’s “end-times” Southern Baptist teachings.
And about the possibility of future wars, Danny Danon, an outspoken Likud lawmaker, said Obama’s call would “eventually remove the state of Israel from the map.”
This is what Israel fears. But, their support for the Religious Right, “the settlers” end-time view is the real danger to Israel. This makes a future land-war a distinct possibility.
As long as one Moslem nation has a nuclear device that can reach Tel Aviv, they should worry. Both Pakistan and Iran have such weapons or soon will.
President Obama realizes this, but he can’t confront our foreign policy mistakes of the past that began our “unholy” wars. This is where true reconciliation begins.
The only person making comments that make any sense is John Perry (7:26 p.m.). Why? Because he has obviously studied the history and knows what has actually happened and is happening now. Israel’s current government would rather should “I’m a victim” than deal with the “problem” honestly. By honestly I mean owning up to the Zionist process of grabbing land and ethnic cleansing that has gone on since the Zionist movement began. One can read all about it in Ilan Pappe’s book: THE ETHNIC CLEANSING OF PALESTINE. Having studied this situation myself for over 50 years, I can tell you that one has only to reflect on what they have witnessed to realize that the victims are not the Israelis but the Palestinians. When the death rate in any altercation is 100 Palestinians to 1 Israeli simple logic will tell you who the victim is. When the land demarked by the UN in 1947 is laid out on a map and then followed by the changes in the subsequent 64 years are noted, it is obvious who is taking land from whom. When you read the Oslo Accords and realize that Israel has not met any of their obligations, you realize that the Palestinians are getting royally screwed while we look the other way. It goes on and on and on. The list is long and discouraging.
Also, the constant reminder of Palestinian terrorists is pretty outrageous. Can anyone tell me exactly when the Palestinians last perpetrated an attack on Israel? You will, of course, mention the absurd rockets that have, indeed, killed about 10 people and damaged property. How can this compare to “Operation Cast Lead?” (Palestinian deaths: 1400; Israeli: 14 (four or five by friendly fire.).
Is anyone posting here (aside from Mr. Perry) remotely interested in the truth? Do you only read the AIPAC nonsense, rely on Ethan Bronner and listen to that charming bully, Netanyahu spew his outrageous lies? Has anyone read the Likud Platform where is explicitly says:
SELF RULE: The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state WEST of the Jordan River. (You may have to refer to a map to understand the meaning of this.)
THE JORDAN RIVER AS A PERMANENT BORDER: THE JORDAN VALLEY AND THE TERRITORIES THAT DOMINATE IT SHALL BE UNDER ISRAELI SOVEREIGNTY. THE JORDAN RIVER WILL BE THE PERMANENT EASTERN BORDER OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL. THE KINGDOM OF JORDAN IS A DESIREABLE PARTNER IN THE PERMANENT STATUS ARRANGEMENT BETWEEN ISRAEL AND THE PALESTINIANS IN MATTERS THAT WILL BE AGREED UPON. (Do you suppose Israel consulted Jordan on this?)
In other words, the Palestinians, known to the ROMANS as Philistines, who have lived in the area for as long as the Hebrew Peoples AND lived their continuosly through centuries, should now leave and live in Jordan, thus becoming “Jordanians.” Now that’s CHUTZPAH. That’s ETHNIC CLEANSING.
It took more backbone and honest reflection for Obama to make his statement on the 1967 borders than I’ve seen in any post here or any comment from Netanyahu, or heard from a world leader in a long time.
When Harry Truman was trying to decide which direction to take on Israeli Statehood in 1947, he was advised by George Marshall to deny. Why? Because Marshall could see that this one act would build a fire in the Middle East that would burn for a long, long time. As we see now, he was exactly right.
Get informed. Forget the propaganda you’ve been fed and then open your eyes, do some extensive research and look at what is actually happening.
I am disappointed the debate has gone so far from the original point: regardless of how you view Israel, the Palestinian mourning of the Nakba is not mourning over the creation of Israel, but over the loss of a large part of their homeland and creation of a massive class of displaced persons (whether through ethnic cleansing, expulsion, or voluntary flight). This is a crucial distinction. If Israel and its supporters believe Palestinians (20% of their citizens, not including the population in the “Occupied Territories”) mourn the creation of Israel, then peace is not really possible. If Israel and its supporters recognize that even partition without the mass displacement was a loss for the Palestinians, then there can be a recognition that all of the Israeli demands of the Palestinians for secure borders and recognition of fundamental right to exist, etc, apply reflexively and that the party with the greater power and greater security also has the greater responsibility to ensure these conditions exist.
Anyone interested in the Palestinian point of view might be interested to read my 2008 interview of Khalid Mish’al, the head of Hamas, who recently signed the reconciliation agreement with Mahmoud Abbas: http://www.spannermedia.com/interviews/Mish%27al.htm Rather than endlessly repeating, “All Arabs hate Jews and want to exterminate them!”, why not read what a Palestinian resistance leader actually says?
When I was hitch-hiking through Jordan in 1963, and had been given a ride with a Jordanian family, and we stopped at a little village and two little kids in rags came up to the car begging, the people I was with yelled at them to go away and spit at them. I asked about the kids and the father said, “Palestinians. They are beggers.”
The kids and the scene looked so much like the plateaus in Arizona and the People who were still hanging on there.
Iraq, Jordan, Bahrain, were all created by British and European governments around the beginning of the 20th century. The Balfour decision wasnt a gift to the Jewish People, it was almost a joke, intending to leave white folks in the possibly valuable areas, and being Jews, they were seen as a place holder to be exchanged later. Jews, tired of being whacked by those same white powers wanted a place apart and jumped idealistically at the chance to build a homeland. They bought land that was sold to them but were content to live with their neighbors peacefully. Just like hippies who moved into New Mexico and Arizona wanted to live and learn from the native People. Get the picture?
This column of comments is an attempt to rewrite history from a perspective quite different than the perspective of the original players. Things did not play out as originally planned. Things change. But you need to add the Perspective as being part of the history. Now is now. If the Arabs want to support the Palestinians, why arent they taking a few days income and building up, really building up, Palestinian cities? Because they want a placeholder to keep their position.
Leave Isreal and the Jews alone and you wont get bitten. Make a deal, settle things, send money, and everyone will be happy and in another 50 years will wtite another history.
It seems that both Ethan Bronner and Ali Abunimah have been ignoring some inconvenient facts regarding their argument. Bronner ignores the Dir Yasin massacre (nd many others) while Abunimah does not mention the Hadassah medical convoy massacre (and many others), where doctors and nurses were burnt alive by Palestinian militia. This ‘eye for an eye’ cycle was taking place in Palestine even prior to the British withdraw.
To Bronner credit he has mentioned Israeli forces driving Palestinians out of their homes, but was understated. Abunimah didn’t even bother to mention anything but the crimes of Zionists. He sounds hateful rather then one who is trying to make a factual argument, but you can’t blame him, in light of the misrepresentation of Palestinian history in corporate media and in diplomatic discourse. In both cases the Palestinian voice is everything but heard.
Bravo to the sane and balanced voices that have come forward. The only thing that I would add is that there was a faction of the Zionists who settled in Palestine in the early part of the last century who were terrorrists. They directed most of their actions against the British, culminating in the bombing of the King David Hotel, the British headquarters in Jerusalem. I understand this was the culmination of several other terrorist attacks against the Brits. and the one which led to their leaving Palestine. You may recognize some of the names of the terrorists: David Ben Gurion, Menachem Begin, Moshe Sharett, Ariel Sharon and many other with whom you are probably familiar. They made up groups called “Irgun”, “Haganah” et al. How ironic that this group of “terrorists” who have ruled Israel for over 60 years are now howling about Hamas being terrorists.
It’s all well and good to comment about an issue that needs the attention of citizens. It’s even more important to ACTUALLY DO something significant that will allow necessary changes to be made to improve our country.
Here is a link that will interest many of you.
http://signon.org/sign/public-funding-of-elected
From Khalid Mish’al, the head of Hamas interview:
George Bush has called the conflict in the Middle East a battle between good and evil. Is that how you see it? (Khalid Mish’al, the head of Hamas) “Yes â┚¬“ but the other way round. This does not apply to Palestine only. Any people that is invaded and occupied represents good and the invaders and occupiers represent evil, whoever they are.”
A distinct difference from Christian teachings of nonviolence from what Khalid Mish’al, the head of Hamas believes. Jesus said “love your enemies, do good to those that persecute you.”
George bush didn’t believe this and neither does Khalid Mish’al.
Did you know that Palestine in 500 AD, Christians were in the majority, due to Jews and Arabs conversion to Christ’s message in the early church? They were called “The Way.” Later they were called “Christian”, an epithet, by the heathen St. Paul and St. Peter were sent to. Then came Mohammed and then the Crusades and then the expulsions of Christians from Palestine in the 20th century wars.
“Many are called but few chosen” to live the life that Jesus offered us.
I should have added , nonviolence works against a nation of laws, proven by Ghandi and Martin Luther King.
Again — “love your enemies, do good to those that persecute you.”
George
To-day the West Bank economy, for its population is among the top 5 in the world. Why? Because it trades with Israel.
Two questions; If in 1948 the five Arab armies had not attacked Israel and had taken their partitioned land as Israel had and had gone on to develop their industry and society, what would this part of the world look like to-day?
If in 1948 the Arabs had overrun Israel, what do you think the fate of the Jews in Israel would have been?
Marvin Sharpe asks,
“If in 1948 the five Arab armies had not attacked Israel…?”
The question should be “If Israel had not been involved in ethnic cleansing of Palestinians in the soon to be partitioned land? Would the tit- for-tat wars that began then and threatens to continue today would have happened?
When we forget history, we are condemned to repeat it.
George
I read a book by “Glubb Pasha” the British Officer who was in charge of the Jordanian Army in May 1948. According to his version, the Jordanians and other Arabs stopped at the designated demarkation border. It was the Zionists who trangressed. Of course, as we all know, the victors are the writers of history, not the losers. Still, I recommend the Isreali Historian, Ilan Pappe’s excellent book: “The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine.” He has researched Zionist documents, not available through open records laws, and presents some compelling information. It is difficult to read as I had hope that the Israelils were as “good” as they present themselves and that, as a young person, I admired David Ben Gurion and, like most people then, was excited about the State of Israel. When you read Ben Gurion’s words, it is a huge disappointment.
I know people who have visited areas of the West Bank and Gaza and report back that they, Arab, Jew, Christian, etc. are always welcomed. Israel prohibits this type of visitation and only a few are able to get in, a policy which should raise a very large red flag. It is still very sad to me that Israel has made such a botch of what was once an amazing promise.
I made an error/typo. The open documents are NOW available, not “not” as I wrote.
Thanks to George McGinnis, Elizabeth Bishop-Martin, tishado, and Huw Spanner for their sensible comments and links.
Dear William,
I guess I thought that the other 99% of the “issues” you raised with either simple-minded or irrelevant. For example, the fact that you are a long-time FAIR subscriber. I focused instead on addressing your misleading comment that Deir Yassin was a “battle with casualties on both sides”. I’m afraid reading FAIR all these years has done you little good in the department of “Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting”
Best Wishes,
Peter
Timn, I mostly agree with you about the group you mentioned, but aren’t you confusing John Perry with George McGinnis? George says he agrees with William A. who seems to definitely have an Israeli can do no wrong axe to grind, and he says Iran and Pakistan have nuclear weapons, well, Pakistan does, and he does correct himself by saying Iran may soon have them. Or do you just like his turn the other cheek kind of philosophy?Which I do not disagree with.
What I do not understand is that after the utter devastation of WWII for the Jewish people in particular, and others(Gypsies, Slavs, Poles, blacks, browns, gays, kids, the elderly, and the disabled), how can the Zionists treat the Palestinians as they do? It is as if they have forgotten the bitter treatment done to them by the Germans and their co-opted allies in other countries that Germany invaded. There is a series of programs out on cable in the on demand section which has a Steven Spielberg and the Shoas Foundation presentation called Days of Remembrance, a series of about 13 separate hour long films about the Holocaust. Of the 6 million people who were slaughtered, 1.5 million were children, innocent children some of whom survived to tell their stories in these films. The Germans were not the only ones who carried out the murders of the Jewish people, there were townspeople who were complicit with the Germans, who were former neighbors and friends of their Jewish fellow human beings who betrayed them. Some wonder why the Jews did not fight back, the fact is they did, they were just heavily outnumbered, and they lived under the threat of their families being murdered in front of them and in many cases it was a reality, not just a threat. The Jewish people were moved into ghetto areas where once 7,000 lived, now it was 57,000. Disease was rampant and they were not allowed any treatment for their ills. Thousands died from their diseases from the overcrowding and unsanitary conditions.
Some of the townsfolk were very compassionate and were actually angels in disguise, they shielded the Jews from the politsia, they provided food and comfort for the children, all of this was done under the threat of death, but they did it anyway, and it is a tribute to those who did not degenerate into the barabarians of the politsia and the Germans who were the occupiers. The Nuremburg Laws removed citizenship from the Jewish people in Germany and these same policies were put in place at the invaded cities, The Jewish people, they lost their businesses, their professorships, they were unable to go to school, the Nazi controlled media which portrayed them always as though they were vermin, less than human, and indeed the word vermin was often used to describe them. Graphic images of negative sterotypes flooded the media landscape.
While I watched these Days of Remembrance I could not help but cry my eyes out at the visible suffering of the individuals and at the very inhumanity of a few complicit humans who could treat their brothers and sisters in such cruel and heartless ways, to remove all semblance of there being a human being in front of them to replace it with the view of something lower than an animal, though it is unlikely any animal could ever be this hollow inside, that they could degenerate into these primitive barbarians. I just don’t understand the position Israel is taking towards the Palestinians, that they have a policy of you kill one of ours, we kill 100 of yours. The Palestinians have nowhere near the military might of the Israelis, and yet the Israelis like to flaunt their tanks and jets in ways simply meant to cower, to intimidate the Palestinians. I just do not get it. The Israelis are so much more powerful.
Here are a couple of videos on youtube about the US Israeli/Middle East foreign policy that was not a part of the commission’s reporting of 9/11. It was stated that one of the reasons for the 9/11 attack was the US foreign policy towards the Israelis and other oppressive regimes in the Middle East, whose support of Israeli foreign policy is boosted by the lobbying of AIPAC which holds extreme Zionist views and appears to control the foreign policy of the US and Israel.
http://www.youtube.com/profile?annotation_id=annotation_417018&feature=iv&user=representativepress#p/u/0/ynWjYHP91gA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?playnext=1&index=0&feature=PlayList&v=BuTQ6ystWrw&list=PL7D2F342A1F2AEA82
And then, of course, there is a push from the lobby, AIPAC for the US to go to war with Iran.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nch43wy8Zb8&feature=list_related&playnext=1&list=SP098E3E108E79849A
And then there is this, King Abdullah writes in November 1947 in The American Magazine, an article about the Jewish exodus to the Middle East.
http://www.kinghussein.gov.jo/kabd_eng.html
And as a further reference to the article, a different website that found the article.
An op-ed piece in an edition of “The American Magazine,” written by King Abdullah of Jordan in 1947 – six months before the 1948 Arab-Israeli War that created the modern state of Israel. The website is run by Neeraj Solanki Malhotra. He has some interestung takes on the Israeli-Palestinian issue.
http://jerusalaam.blogspot.com/
Raymond I wish you could spend a couple weeks in Israel. Israelis and Palestinians live in peace for the most part.At Israel’s inception the number of Palestinians living in that small spit of desert was minute.The number now is massive.The idea that there is anything remotely like the levels of persecution as seen in Nazi Germany is simply a spurious notion.And there is no plan- of 100 dead for every one jew.You are painting a picture that is not real. Israel has had to go to great extremes to protect herself from endless hatred and attack.In this war zone collateral loss of life and freedoms is reality.The sad part is…if after the state of Israel was founded the Palestinians had forsworn violence in all manner against Israel can we not admit how much better would be their lives today.In pride and hatred they are the ram that runs into the mountain again and again to push it aside.
Raymond, regarding Michael’s claim that “Israelis and Palestinians live in peace for the most part”, make sure to spend a week of his proposed Israeli vacation in Gaza.
Ah, yes, and nothing illustrates Israelis and Palestinians living in peace better than taking in the spectacle of the weekly peaceful protests in Bil’in (http://www.bilin-village.org/english/), which are routinely violently suppressed by the Israeli authorities.
Woah guys.You are pointing to rock throwing thugs….rebel rowsers ,and terrorists as average Palestinians?Take a step back now. Who is profiling now?Or is it just the reaction of police and military security forces attacking peaceful types that are slack jawed jack booted thugs that you see as the whole world there?It is a sad stain certainly.But not the common exoeriance.Take a look at crime reports in Israel and New York on any given day.Or Washington.Or Camden.Where is the war zone again?
Anybody see pics of BB and Obama at the same age of 24 that are flashing about?BB in his military uniform already a veteran of many engagements.Obama in a pimp hat near what appears to be a duby(joint).Reality… experience….. capability…… delusion.
Israel killed nearly 1 out of every thousand residents of the Gaza Strip during its most recent war there. As common sense would tell you, it’s Gaza that’s a war zone, not New York City.
Yes, a common way oppressive governments deal with peaceful protesters demanding their rights is to caricature them as “rock throwing thugs … rebel rowsers and terrorists”.
For Michael – If you were constantly being shot at, your land being taken, your sheep poisoned and any complaints you levied against the perpetrators ignored AND you had no defensive weapons to protect your property, let along your life, what would you use to defend yourself? Or would you just lie down and wait to be shot?
While I don’t agree with rock throwing, it is very sad to see that rocks are the only thing that the Palestinians have to defend themselves against the enormous tanks, Catepillar demolishion machines, automatic rifles, tear gas and white phosphorous. Somehow, I suspect that if the Palestinians just sat down and did what our Civil Rights protesters did in the 50s and 60s, they would not live very long.
Elizabeth….Your idea of what Israelis have to “step over”on their way to work as a daily “visual”is replete with media generated ideas of what life is like in Israel.Visit it ,and I promise you will enjoy a far different picture.Actually outside the “war zones” (as you would have it)they are far better than major US cities in most crime stats.Your idea of the IDF as marauding(perps)troops- thats sole job is to torture indigenous populations is troubling.It shows great lack of understanding of the facts.They are a well armed, superbly trained defense force.A wall against hatred and attack. Well proven.To point first to their right to force as used against those who would kill them and their people as an intrinsic evil…while discounting their forsworn enemies due to their attackers being less well armed is bizarre.And as far as Palestinians not living very long under an Israeli government…. Understand the Israelis have always had the means to kill all their enemies.They have not.So the argument is spurious and a moot point.I would say if the situation were reversed ,and taking the arab leaderships words to heart…it would be the Israelis who would be gone.And never compare protestors here in the 50s-60s to the terrorist elements Israel lives with 24-7.911 was our first taste of Israel’s reality.
Jim…..That 1 out of a thousand.How many of that one out of a thousand people deserved the use of lethal force?Two days ago IDF killed two suicide bombers en route(and vested)to their final destination.An Israeli settlement according to their final letters left behind.Do they get lumped in with your figures.Damn tootin they do!
Peter…Peaceful protestors?If I walked outside your house to” peacefully” protest your liberalism as i chucked rocks at your head ,and your families heads how peaceful am i-P as i splatter your brains all over the sidewalk?I would say please cut the IDF a break as they do a serious hard job.
As the ruling class of ‘israel’ is mostly white Europeans, and the subject population of Palestine is mostly Semites, I ask you: who is anti-semitic? To oppose the policies of the zionist regime, is to be labeled “anti-semitic”. But any humanitarian would care more about how people are being treated and less about obscure minority religious doctrines.
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