AP (11/21/21) reports that “natural immunity” is the Republicans’ “new weapon against the White House rules.”
One particularly pernicious myth going around in the US is the notion that “natural immunity,” gained from contracting Covid-19, the disease caused by the virus SARS-CoV-2, is preferable to getting vaccinated. One prominent politician, Sen. Rand Paul (R.–Ky.), has declared that he refuses to get vaccinated, because of his belief that he has “natural immunity” since he’s “already had the disease” (Slate, 5/23/21).
Now, the Republican Party is officially embracing its position as the anti-vaccine political party, advocating what they call “natural immunity” as an alternative or substitute to getting vaccinated, as the Associated Press (11/21/21) reported:
Republicans fighting President Joe Biden’s coronavirus vaccine mandates are wielding a new weapon against the White House rules: natural immunity.
They contend that people who have recovered from the virus have enough immunity and antibodies to not need Covid-19 vaccines, and the concept has been invoked by Republicans as a sort of stand-in for vaccines.
Florida wrote natural immunity into state law this week, as GOP lawmakers elsewhere are pushing similar measures to sidestep vaccine mandates. Lawsuits over the mandates have also begun leaning on the idea. Conservative federal lawmakers have implored regulators to consider it when formulating mandates.
“We’re actually doing a science-based approach,” declared Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, as he signed a law hobbling vaccine mandates. “For example, we recognize people that have natural immunity.”
‘State of fear’
The most dangerous misconceptions to deal with here are that getting infected with Covid is superior to getting vaccinated, and framing the concept of “natural immunity” gained from previous infections as a contrast to vaccine-induced immunity.
Marty Makary (Wall Street Journal, 6/8/21) wrote that “disregarding the protection afforded by natural immunity…prolongs the state of fear that has many people wearing masks even when there’s no mandate, or reason, to do so.” Over the next six months, 200,000 Americans would die from Covid.
Dr. Marty Makary, a surgeon at Johns Hopkins and editor of MedPage Today, has been given a large platform by corporate media, writing several op-eds extolling the powers of “natural immunity” as an argument against vaccine mandates, as well as against other public health measures, such as wearing masks, despite the wealth of evidence supporting the importance of masks in reducing transmission.
For the Wall Street Journal (6/8/21), in an op-ed headlined “The Power of Natural Immunity,” he wrote:
What’s the harm of underestimating or disregarding the protection afforded by natural immunity? It almost certainly cost American lives by misallocating vaccine doses earlier this year, and is still doing so in countries where Covid is prevalent and shots are scarce. It continues to delay full reopening and prolongs the state of fear that has many people wearing masks, even when there’s no mandate, or reason, to do so.
Focusing on the encouragement of universal vaccination in wealthy nations is certainly a good way to distract from those nations’ failure to deliver on their promises to provide vaccines to the Global South—and, perhaps more importantly, from the maintenance of patent protections that prevent developing nations from producing their own vaccines.
Makary’s arguments also notably always seem to place blame for Covid shutdowns and deaths on pro-vax rather than anti-vax positions; in a similar Washington Post column (9/15/21), Makary blamed those unconvinced by “natural immunity” for “the loss of thousands of American lives.” Makary makes no mention of the hundreds of thousands of deaths in the US since vaccines became widely available to all, the vast majority of which would have been prevented if not for the widespread anti-vax arguments fed by people like Makary. Nor does he acknowledge that the primary cause of delays to full reopening is not vaccine mandates but the continued resurgence of Covid waves driven by the huge reservoir of Americans that lack immunity because of their vaccine hesitancy.
But the most troubling part of this passage is its insistence that we are living in a “state of fear” rather than an ongoing pandemic, and that there is “no…reason” to take public health precautions.
Makary’s June Journal article is especially fascinating, since he published another Journal op-ed in February (2/18/21) containing fantastical predictions that the US would achieve “herd immunity” by April, which is obviously wrong, since here we are in December, without herd immunity (as experts predicted at the time). The Journal could have chosen not to publish Makary again after his ridiculous prediction failed, but not only did it continue to give him a platform, it also allowed him to lie further by claiming the US had already achieved herd immunity in June:
With more than 8 in 10 adults protected from either contracting or transmitting the virus, it can’t readily propagate by jumping around in the population. In public health, we call that herd immunity, defined broadly on the Johns Hopkins Covid information webpage as “when most of a population is immune.” It’s not eradication, but it’s powerful.
Since this declaration that “herd immunity” has already been achieved, there have been 17 million confirmed new infections in the United States—half again as many as had been recorded in the country in the previous 14 months of the pandemic—and more than 200,000 Covid deaths.
Misinterpreted study
David Gorski (Science-Based Medicine, 10/4/21) writes that “vaccine-induced immunity is every bit as ‘natural’ as immunity acquired after recovering from Covid-19, with the advantage that vaccine-induced immunity doesn’t require you to suffer through the disease and be at risk for the complications, long-term disability and death that it can cause.”
In recent columns, Makary often touts as incontrovertible evidence an Israeli preprint (a study yet to be peer-reviewed) that made headlines (e.g., Science, 8/26/21) claiming infection-induced immunity offers more protection against the more transmissible Delta variant than two doses of the Pfizer vaccine. Bloomberg’s “Previous Covid Prevents Delta Infection Better Than Pfizer Shot” (8/27/21) reported:
The largest real-world analysis comparing natural immunity—gained from an earlier infection—to the protection provided by one of the most potent vaccines currently in use showed that reinfections were much less common…. People given both doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine were almost six-fold more likely to contract a delta infection and seven-fold more likely to have symptomatic disease than those who recovered.
Some notable left-wing journalists have also cited the study as evidence that people and legislators should give more credence to “natural immunity,” failing to note that the same study also wrote that “individuals who were previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 and given a single dose of the BNT162b2 vaccine gained additional protection against the Delta variant.”
Dr. David Gorski, managing editor of Science Based Medicine (10/4/21), pointed out several other issues with the Israeli study’s findings:
One thing I noticed right off the bat is how its tables and charts only report odds ratios…. You have to dig into the text to see that the absolute numbers of infections were quite low (for example, only 19 reinfections in one group) and actually do the math yourself to figure out that the breakthrough infection rates after vaccination were low.
I found that omission very curious, as well as the framing that didn’t mention that this study actually showed that the Pfizer vaccine was quite effective…. In addition, as described in this presentation, this study appears to have suffered from significant selection bias, based on how different the populations being studied were. It also suffered from survivorship bias.
PolitiFact (9/1/21) noted that the Israeli study only tested one vaccine (Pfizer/BioNTech), and that gauging immunity by comparing Covid reinfection rates among the unvaccinated with breakthrough infections among the vaccinated “ignores the dangers of contracting Covid-19 in the first place, and the protections against severe illness that vaccines provide.”
Perhaps more importantly, the Israeli study is only one, retrospective study, with plenty of others to contradict the idea that infection-based immunity is stronger than vaccination. For instance, a recent CDC study found that among hospitalized adults, vaccination offered about five times more protection than previously having had Covid (CDC, 11/5/21). The CDC’s most recent overview (10/29/21) of scientific research cites a systematic review and meta-analysis of data and studies from the US/UK/Israel that found “no significant difference in the overall level of protection provided by infection as compared with protection provided by vaccination.”
Although some vaccinated people experience breakthrough infections, and even death, despite being vaccinated, studies have shown that those who got Pfizer or Moderna vaccines have cases that are, on average, faster-resolving and less symptomatic than those who are unvaccinated, with less virus lingering (NEJM, 7/22/21).
The Atlantic’s science reporter Katherine Wu (9/3/21) also noted:
When it comes to severe disease and death, though, vaccine effectiveness hasn’t really budged at all: Immunized people seem to be thwarting the worst cases of Covid-19 just as well as they did when the shots debuted, often at rates well into the 90s. That’s fantastic, considering that the FDA’s original benchmark for vaccine success, announced in June 2020, was reducing the risk of disease or serious disease by 50% among people who get the shot.
Wu (9/16/21) also noted that “Several studies have shown that a decent percentage of infected people might not produce detectable levels of antibodies, for the simple reason that ‘not all infections are the same,’” and that vaccines having standardized ingredients and dosage removes a lot of the ambiguity and uncertainty regarding how strong one’s immunity will be.
Virologist Angela Rasmussen told me that there’s debate over how many vaccine doses people who recovered from Covid need, because “more research” has been published about previously infected people who get one shot rather than two. The CDC currently recommends full vaccination for Covid survivors.
Immunity through mass death
Trump science advisor Paul Alexander wrote that “it may be that it will be best if we open up and flood the zone and let the kids and young folk get infected” in pursuit of “natural immunity” (Politico, 12/16/20).
There are effectively two strategies for achieving “herd immunity” (the threshold where a sufficient number of the population is inoculated against a disease such that widespread transmission is blocked): through mass vaccination, or through previous exposure to the virus. Vaccination seeks herd immunity without the massive human costs that come with letting the virus run its course, as seeking herd immunity through mass infection does.
This is evidenced by Sweden having up to 10 times as many Covid deaths compared to its neighbors in August, despite its being held up as a model by corporate media for its “herd immunity” approach of letting people get infected, which FAIR (4/30/20, 5/27/20) criticized at the time. Without the robust welfare state and national healthcare system of Sweden, it’s no wonder the US’s similar lack of public health measures has resulted in the most Covid deaths in the world; in the words of Trump science advisor Paul Alexander (Politico, 12/16/20), it would be “best to open up and…let the kids and young folk get infected” in order to get “natural immunity.” Whether or not the Trump administration’s pandemic response was motivated by the specific goal of immunity through mass infection, mass death was the result.
People should also not make the mistake of interpreting news about greater breakthrough infections as evidence that vaccines are failing. For example, when Singapore transitioned out of its zero-Covid strategy once 80% of its population was vaccinated, there was a predictable rise in Covid cases and breakthrough infections; however, the vast majority of the new cases aren’t falling ill, due to their being vaccinated, and as the Atlantic’s Wu (7/26/21) pointed out:
Breakthroughs, especially symptomatic ones, are still uncommon, as a proportion of immunized people. But by sheer number, “the more people get vaccinated, the more you will see these breakthrough infections,” Juliet Morrison, a virologist at UC Riverside, told me. (Don’t forget that a small fraction of millions of people is still a lot of people—and in communities where a majority of people are vaccinated, most of the positive tests could be for shot recipients.)
In one sense, whether infection-induced immunity or vaccine-induced immunity is better is not the most important question. For unvaccinated people who haven’t had an infection, the question is whether one is better off getting vaccinated or getting Covid, and the data is clear that getting vaccinated is better.
As of December 16, there have been only nine confirmed deaths directly related to, or caused by, Covid vaccines (specifically the Johnson & Johnson vaccine), despite over 490 million vaccine doses being administered in the US, while over 800,000 people have died from Covid, out of over 50 million confirmed Covid cases in the US. Yet many believe they are better off taking their chances with getting Covid instead of getting vaccinated, when in reality, Covid infection is hundreds of thousands of times more dangerous than vaccination.
For the question of whether people who have had Covid should get vaccinated, that answer is also obvious. The current research shows that people with “hybrid immunity” (immunity from being vaccinated after having had Covid) often have even greater, “super” immunity than those who have only recovered from a previous infection (Nature, 10/14/21). Rasmussen told me that “vaccination is a more reliable way of inducing more consistent responses, which is why vaccination after infection seems to provide so much benefit.”
A misleading contrast
However, it’s important to stress that the very concept of “natural immunity” as a contrast to vaccine-induced immunity is a misleading one, as several medical and scientific experts have pointed out. Epidemiologist Michael Mina tweeted that he dislikes the term “natural immunity,” because “there is no such thing as artificial immunity,” as vaccines drive a “NATURAL immune response.” The main question is whether one prefers to start building that immunity through a “safe vaccine” or a “risky infection.”
Virologist Stuart Neil concurred, tweeting that the “only ‘artificial’ immunity is passive transfer of cells or serum. Vaccines stimulate your natural immune response without the need for a natural infection.”
Gorski explained why contrasting infection-induced immunity and vaccine-induced immunity is a fundamental misunderstanding of what vaccines are and what they do:
As much as it perturbs me that this has to be explained again and again, boiling the concept of vaccination down to its essence, all a vaccine does is prime the immune system with a dead pathogen, a protein (or part of a protein from it), or a related but harmless pathogen so that the body can respond so much more quickly when the actual pathogen is actually encountered “in the wild.” The end result is to prevent you from becoming sick due to that pathogen. The best vaccines, of course, do more than that and prevent you from being infected at all (a phenomenon known as sterilizing immunity), but a good vaccine doesn’t have to induce sterilizing immunity or to be 100% effective at preventing transmission to accomplish a lot of very good things, again, not the least of which is preventing severe disease.
Some notable anti-vaxxers have taken their advocacy for “natural immunity” so far that they have even accidentally reproduced the rationale behind vaccines without realizing it:
When you go so hard antivax you come full circle. pic.twitter.com/3RbErizJF1
— Dr. John Elf Canuck, MD 🍁🎄 (@CanuckManMD) November 20, 2021
Don’t call it ‘natural’
Alan Levinovitz (Washington Post, 9/29/21): It is “unwise to associate, even inadvertently, certain forms of immunity with purity and divine mandate, implying that other options are impure violations of heaven’s will.”
Vaccine hesitancy is higher in wealthier nations like the US, and polling agencies like Gallup (7/30/21) have noted that the influence of religious leaders and organizations may play a role:
Twenty-four percent of white Protestants who identify as evangelical say they won’t get vaccinated, compared to 6% of white Protestants who don’t identify as evangelical or born again.
Alan Levinovitz (Washington Post, 9/29/21), a professor of religious studies at James Madison University and author of Natural: How Faith in Nature’s Goodness Leads to Harmful Fads, Unjust Laws and Flawed Science, pointed out that many people “often treat naturalness as synonymous with purity and goodness, even holiness,” and argued that alternatives like “virus-induced immunity” should be used in public messaging instead. Gorski endorses the term “post-infection immunity.”
The mistaken belief in the superiority of “natural immunity” is one of the more commonly cited reasons why people hesitate to get vaccinated. Behavioral scientists have implored public health authorities to be “more aware of the psychology of citizen decision-making,” and avoid contributing to the appeal-to-nature fallacy:
The power of this cognitive bias is so great that the average person is willing to pay a premium on foods and medicines referred to as natural. This has certainly spawned its fair share of shrewd marketing tactics aimed at unsuspecting consumers…. In our current Covid-19 predicament, the appeal-to-nature fallacy has an even darker side: It makes some people believe that they do not need vaccines. Why would they, if they can protect themselves the “natural way”?
Misleading contrast
Responsible outlets like Health Feedback (11/3/21) dedicated to combating popular but misleading scientific claims have run more accurate headlines, like “Infection-Induced Immunity Versus Vaccine-Induced Immunity: Weighing the Benefits and Risks.” Yet reports in popular corporate outlets still often make the misleading contrast between “natural immunity” and vaccination-induced immunity (e.g., Yahoo, 11/14/21; Washington Post, 9/29/21).
Taking the appeal-to-nature fallacy to its most extreme and absurd conclusions, one might just as well argue that we should all intentionally try and give ourselves and everyone around us Covid, since there is an overwhelming and increasingly preponderant amount of evidence suggesting that the virus also emerged from nature (e.g., Wall Street Journal, 3/1/21; South China Morning Post, 9/20/21; Nature, 9/16/21; Cell, 8/18/21; Science, 11/18/21). This is exactly what Republicans like Rep. Matt Gaetz (R.–Fla.) propose when they attempt to make parody a reality by arguing: “The best vaccine we’ve found is mother nature’s vaccine. It’s contracting the virus.” Yet, as Gorski noted, those who advocate for “natural immunity” strangely never seem to volunteer themselves to get Covid first.
There are many false or dubious sensationalist stories being promoted by corporate media and in online social media spaces, including progressive or left-wing ones.
Some of them include the debunked claim that the CDC director said that the vaccines were “failing,” unsubstantiated claims that Pfizer “falsified” data for their clinical trials, misleading descriptions of the US’s Covid vaccines as scientifically “experimental” with false claims of skipping animal trials and standard safety testing, or that vaccines don’t help prevent infection and transmission of Covid at all (vaccines do, in fact, reduce infection and transmission, even if not entirely). With the newly detected Omicron variant spreading, it’s especially important to dispel misleading or false information, and for all people to get as protected as possible—meaning vaccination and even boosters, as many experts are now advising (Atlantic, 12/8/21, 12/17/21; Stat, 10/21/21, 12/16/21).
If only we had herd immunity against religiopolitical propaganda
Rather than a unique vulnerability to it
Joshua:
If natural immunity for COVID isn’t true how come ever other aliment doesn’t require a vaccine if you’ve had the disease? Plus the vaccines that prevent the other disease keep you from contacting that disease! Unlike the COVID vaccine.
FAIR will not be receiving any more money from me!!!!
Every other ailment doesn’t require a vaccine if you’ve had the disease?? Where on earth did you hear that?
Really? Guess you’ve only had the flu once, or a common cold once , or are one of the 30% who don’t have one of the Herpes family of viruses — just for starters. Ever suffered from warts? I could easily go on but if you can think for once, that should suffice.
SPLF
I won’t cite the studies that show that natural immunity is equal to, or superior to, the protection provide by the vaccine. No one reads them because you can’t counter a belief with data.
But even the CDC admits that the vaccines, including the boosters, do not prevent infection. They are designed to reduce the severity of symptoms after infection. And, they only focus on the spike protein.
In contrast, natural infection creates antibodies to the entire virus, not just the spike protein. And so far has shown durability against reinfection.
This is what happens if we contract measles or chicken pox as a child. With future exposure, we will not get reinfected. But the current vaccine does not create similar immunity. It only activates T cells to fight the spike protein that it was designed to recognize.
From what we know so far, natural immunity is more similar to the immunity we get from chicken pox. It is durable, and lasts at least a year, maybe much longer. This is why the omicron variant might be a blessing in disguise.
Because it is less pathogenic and more contagious, it might generate the herd immunity that the vaccine promised but couldn’t deliver.
Thanks for doing all the research and supplying so many highlighted links but there’s something missing from your analysis. Health care in this country has changed dramatically in the ~45/50 years since “America’s Doctor” began to more and more insert himself between doctors and patients and the whole “Science Based” versus “Evidence Based” medicine discussion turned into an excuse for health mandates and a top/down, “one choice fits all” medical practice model.
Looking at that larger back story, the new paradigm has helped the insurance lobby profit by denying and restricting coverage, big pharma to profit when individual patient outcomes aren’t the primary goal. Worst of all the ginormous private equity firms that exist like Dark Matter (invisible but exerting control through the sheer weight of their galactic-size gravity fields) own and monetize everything; insurance, pharma and government (Vanguard, Black Rock, State Street) work for their own advantage — not the common good.
In that sense, I don’t think it’s even necessary to politicize the natural vs vaccine induced immunity debate.
All that’s done is create dead ears and resentment. A long article in counterpunch yesterday examined the relative success Cuba has had taking a unified but more multifaceted approach.
Finally, I am not an evangelical, a Republican or Libertarian but I would urge you to grab your tablet, spend the nominal amount needed to purchase the kindle edition of RFK jr.’s book. Burn a couple of free hours reading pages in different chapters and try to get a grasp of the older treatment model, where patient outcomes mattered more than strict adherence to “Science.” The book is well-written, copiously and thoroughly footnoted and explosively revealing when it comes to exposing the corrupting influence of profit hunger on public health.
Uh oh
Found the anti vaxxer
“Anti-vaxxer” I am not. Anti experimental mRNA vaccines, I am. With less than a 1% mortality rate, a regular regimen of vitamins will protect all except the most vulnerable (those with severely compromised immune systems). Early treatment and prophylaxis work together to boost the immune system, something the article downplays in favor of Big Pharma’s experimental vaccines that – at best – provide protection for just 6 months…requiring regular boosters and increased risks of thrombosis and the other side effects of the jab.
You’re not an anti-vaxxer, but you’re promoting a book by one of the “dirty dozen” purveyors of anti-vax misinformation and claiming that vitamins will suffice to protect people against infectious diseases. Tell me, would you have unprotected sex with someone with AIDS because you’re “protected” by vitamins? You go on to minimize COVID by saying that it “only” has a <1% mortality rate, as if somehow that doesn't add up to millions of people worldwide, and you also ignore that many times that number have gotten seriously ill or gotten long COVID. Then you proceed to natter on about "Big Pharma's experimental vaccines"–that have a year and a half of research behind them and have been administered to billions of people, so how the HELL are they experimental at this point? Moreover, in the US, "Big Pharma" has made every other vaccine for the past several decades and makes every single medication in use. Do you just not use medicine at all because "Big Pharma" made it? Also, Cuba's, China's, and Russia's vaccines aren't made by "Big Pharma." Do you trust those more by virtue of that fact, and what evidence do you have that they don't have pretty similar efficacy and safety profiles regardless of who manufactures them? You deny being an anti-vaxxer but you make it quite obvious that you are.
Yet there are millions who have contracted with little or no symptoms.
Cheap shot. Ad hominem attack.
Michael:
This (ad hominem attack) is a common practice of “enlightened/ progressive ” liberals when challenged with facts. “Follow the science “… what a joke!
“Safe and Effective” for most, but not all, who wish to “vaccinate” with experimental drugs that do not prevent infection or transmission of covid19.
He’s not. But if he was it’s his choice–not yours….
So FAIR is pushing the mainstream propaganda lol. This happens to every organization at some point so I shouldn’t be surprised.
Isaac what you are asking for is not media criticism. That’s just reflexive, mindless nay-saying.
Watch Max Blumenthal’s interview with CJ Hopkins
Did you even bother to watch the Jimmy Dore expose’?
It’s on YouTube and it’s titled “Jimmy Dore’s Anti-Vaccine Lies.” If you are a Dore fan, watch it and see if you still feel as strongly about anything else you hear that spills out of Dore’s lying-ass soup cooler.
Why did you decide to hijack this thread with an obscenity-laced rant?
My reply was addressed to Isaac. There was no need for an anonymous keyboard coward to get involved in the conversation.
Ha ha “hijack” yeah right….as if any of this were “going anywhere.” A Dore Knob complaining about obscenity-laced rants, now that is precious. Lol. Guess this means you didn’t view the video? Textbook echo chamber mindset. Figures…be a fool then.
Okay Tough Guy “Bradley,”
My mistake. You were asking if the original poster had even bothered to watch the video in the above article (which I was referring to as well but missed that it was in the article.) I took your comment out of context (hijacked.) Big deal. You could of easily just pointed this out….but nope….you just had to be the asshole, and act like you have virgin eyes and have never seen profanity before. Screw you.
My fault – reminds me of the reason I stopped posting on FAIR in the first place, I have a hard time picking up on other idiots sarcasm or irony.
That’s right, none of us are any better than the other….now you know.
Thanks for admitting you are fully conscious of your own ignorance.
The choice to continue hijacking the thread with anonymous personal attacks laced with obscenity, is clearly evidence that (both of?) you are Mensa material!
Fair is a tool of the establishment.RFK’s book tells the truth. Dirty Dozen? How about the pharma execs who have made billions from drugs approved by the FDA rubber stamp system, with a revolving door of unethical humans serving this profit system above real human health. RFK’s book also tells the story of unethcal jabbing of people for other manufactured illnesses, and as well offers compelling evidence of Dr. Moreau type experimentation continueing around the world, with Fauci’s help, approval and part ownership in many of the corporations who do this genocidal research, development and product launching .
When vaccines are already manufactured pre disease, it is plainly obvious that thee same corporations who profit from treatment, also are collaborating in gain of function research. This means finding ways to mutate, in a lab a particular disease to do more harm.
With health care mistakes, rushed drugs where side effects cause more harm than the illness, and corporate ownership of hospitals and doctor staffing services, corporate medicine and big pharma are still one of the LEADING causes of death.
That they have co-opted data collection and management, in order to make very false claims, that are parroted here is no surprise, nor accident.
I personally know 4 friends who have died from post vax blood clots, and 0 who have died from c19.
I would never give FAIR money for a lot of reasons, but the abject rolling over to complete corporate bs is a new low. So many people have died, and sued medical and drug systems that we should have learned to be more skeptical, but the power of media censorship, centralized and pre-censored information sources and unlimited budgets for security and spy services to sway public opinion are overwhelming the smartest of us from rational thought these days.
I am totally shocked. I am a trained MD, a professor of health policy, and a card carrying antiimperialist, leftie, etc. and (former) contributor of Fair – until COVID destroyed their critical stance. I have also so far followed Joshua in his excellent reporting on anti-China propaganda and the like.
Joshua, you so much distort the position of what you calls “anti-vaxxers” – a good way to dispense of offering a science based argument – that it is hard to know where to begin assessing the multiple programs with your own fanatical pro-vax, pro mandate position.
Joshua, whatever you think about the science (and I wonder where your credentials come from) have you ever heard of the Nuremberg code, or the Helsinki Declaration, or so many other documents that do not permit coercing people into medical treatments? Do you have the faintest idea of what led to the crafting of these documents, the history?
What makes you think that the only problem with Pfizer et al. is that they are making incredible profits (which we knew that they would one way or the other) and in order to persuade people like you they have had to eliminate the competition quite savagely?
Here is some information that I would be happy to discuss with you, unless you are signing up for forced COVID shots every 3 months, the position you are supporting, to be allowed to restaurants, etc.
https://www.canadiancovidcarealliance.org/media-resources/urgent-letter-to-doug-ford-covid-19-vaccines-are-not-safe-for-children-and-youth/
Here is another useful link that you may want to consult when you develop COVID despite having taken 2, 3, 4 or more shots:
https://covid19criticalcare.com/
I will stop there. Feel free to reach out to me. You are young and it is not personal. Unfortunately you are not the first person in Fair I come across that replaces name calling for sound scientific argument.
Thank you.
For someone who touts yourself as well-informed, you sure do spew a lot of misinformation. The Nuremburg Code applies to experimental research with human subjects, not to public health measures like vaccines. I’ll leave it at that because I have only so much time to waste arguing with people who buy into anti-vax propaganda.
I stopped reading when I got to David Gorski, who is a blogger who thinks he knows everything about everything, NOT exactly the same as a magazine “editor.” His opinions are simply that. He talks about others cherry-picking data, yet he does the same thing himself, all the time. He also actively attempts to muzzle and silence any journalists or medical professionals who dare to have independent thoughts and opinions different from his. FAIR has turned into a very disappointing place to get information, if you give this type of credibility to a blogger.
If I have a rash on my arm, most likely I’ll be okay with natural products. That’s simple biology, a plant has evolved to heal itself and if I use that on my skin I’m healed.
There’s nothing like that for specific viruses. You have to have something man made. I can see the benefit of calling it natural, in a way, if by that you mean the immunity you get is naturally your own immune system fighting better. But I’m okay with calling it man made, personally.
Then again I’m not very religious.
It is sad to see that even FAIR has fallen for the pharmaceutical industry propaganda line that a vaccine induced immune response can exceed that engendered by an infection by the pathogen itself. Threatening this falsehood is indeed dangerous – to the pharmaceutical industry.
spot on
Research on vaccines isn’t only (or even mostly) done by the pharmaceutical industry. It’s done by scientists all over the world, most of whom have no connection with that industry. And in any case, the very same study that those claiming “natural” immunity is superior to vaccine-induced immunity love to cite (while ignoring studies that find the opposite) also found this: “individuals who were previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 and given a single dose of the BNT162b2 vaccine gained additional protection against the Delta variant.” This is one of many studies finding that the strongest immunity is in those who have BOTH been vaccinated and infected.
They can’t know that and if they do know that then they violated the Geneva code. Easy and simple. It will be idiots like you that go to “quarantine camps” to “stay safe” just like the Jews in Germany.
FAIR turned into the young turks basically
Nice collection of authoritative sources you have here. I didn’t see any of them that would question the official government narrative on this subject or any other. I’ll add you to my list of propagandists for the plutocracy and move on.
ditto
What is “the official government narrative on this subject or any other?” What do you mean by “authoritative sources” as well?
Until you’ve given a running definition of what you mean by either one of those nebulous phrases, and until you’ve demonstrated each to actually exist, all you’ve done here is blow smoke rings. Great, another conspiracy theorist, using the rhetoric of a trope that sounds reasonable to infer something completely unreasonable.
Many of my neighbors work for the U.S. government, and each one of them is a living breathing, hard working human being who is doing their damn best. They all have their own opinions, and they all have their own private political and spiritual beliefs. As for some sort of conspiracy or narrative that you seem to believe in, no one is forcing these people to tow some “official narrative,” or to “get with the program.”
The reality of our current predicament is much simpler, we are reaping what we have sown.
There’s so much wrong with this piece, it’s difficult to know where to start a critique.
Suffice it to say that Natural Immunity is a very real thing, and several studies (particularly the Israeli study of Aug 2021) demonstrate the superior immunity of those once infected and not vaccinated. I refer the author to Drs. Robert Malone and McCullough who are top professionals in this field. What is woefully absent in all the push for vaccines are sensible early treatment and prophylaxis measures like Vitamin D,C, A, Zinc, and yes, the use of HCQ and IVM. The author also overlooks the MONEY-imperative that is driving the national narrative of “vaccine only” and conveniently ignores the “regulatory capture” that the nation’s health institutions are suffering. There’s no mention of the IMMUNIZATION of the Vaccine Companies to LIBEL suits granted by Congress. Real investigative reporters would also take a very hard look at the tens of thousands of DEATHS reported and countless other Adverse Effects that the vaccines have caused. But hey, it’s easier to regurgitate the OFFICIAL narrative and cast aspersions on those who do not follow suit.
Nowhere did Josh say that “natural immunity” wasn’t a real thing. He addressed the Israeli study and its many problems, and pointed out that numerous studies do not support the claim that immunity from infections is superior to immunity to vaccination–not to mention, you anti-vaxxers ignore that even the Israeli study found that previously infected AND VACCINATED people have better immunity than people who have only been previously infected.
Josh also did not claim anywhere that we should rely on vaccines alone; in fact he discussed evidence that other measures are important.
And you also overlook the fact that vaccine research is done throughout the world by scientists who have no financial stake in the outcome–including in countries such as Cuba and China where the vaccines are directly the product of government research. In contrast, some anti-vax grifters, in many cases funded by right-wing loons like Charles Koch, are raking in a lot of money from pushing that narrative.
“Anti-vaxxer” I am not. Anti experimental mRNA vaccines, I am. With less than a 1% mortality rate, a regular regimen of vitamin D, C, A, zinc, and yes, properly dosed HCQ or IVM will protect all except the most vulnerable (those with severely compromised immune systems). Early treatment and prophylaxis work together to boost the immune system, something the article downplays in favor of Big Pharma’s experimental vaccines that – at best – provide protection for just 6 months…requiring regular boosters and increased risks of thrombosis and the other side effects of the jab.
What if the ongoing high profile disregard for the spread of COVID in the U.S., is fueled by a cynical attempt to reduce the growing number of people who receive social security and disability payments, ultimately reducing the long term cost of these entitlement programs?
The anti-scientific MASS MEDIUM has been hypnotized to endlessly repeat “VACCINES ALONE WILL WORK”, and continue to suppress opposing studies that show the remarkable efficacy of early treatment with Vitamins D, C, A, zinc, together with anti-inflammatories and the anti-viral effects of HCQ and IVM. One has to wonder if you’re “MENGELE” hypothesis isn’t more accurate! What the hell are they doing to us?
You claim not to be an anti-vaxxer yet from then on you proceed to spew one after another false claim commonly made by anti-vaxxers. But let’s grant that you are only against the “experimental” mRNA vaccines (that have been researched for a year and a half for this specific disease & more than a decade in general, given full approval by countries throughout the world, and administered to billions of people over the past year). If so, then why aren’t you promoting people getting the other COVID vaccines that don’t use the so-called “experimental” mRNA technology? There’s one in the US and there are nearly 20 other non-mRNA COVID vaccines in use around the world.
“Anti-vaxxer” I am not. Anti experimental mRNA vaccines, I am. With less than a 1% mortality rate, a regular regimen of vitamins will protect all except the most vulnerable (those with severely compromised immune systems). Early treatment and prophylaxis work together to boost the immune system, something the article downplays in favor of Big Pharma’s experimental vaccines that – at best – provide protection for just 6 months…requiring regular boosters and increased risks of thrombosis and the other side effects of the jab.
Is it just “coincidental” that 75% of the 800,000+ American casualties of COVID, include 1 of every 100 citizens over the age of 65? I think not.
Just read your piece and the strained comments. Am also reading an old book called “The Acquisitive Society” by R H Tawney. The author writes:”…[T]hey destroy religion and art and morality, which cannot exist unless they are disinterested; and having destroyed these, which are the end, for the sake of industry, which is a means, they make their industry itself what they make their cities, a desert of unnatural dreariness, which only forgetfulness can make endurable, and which only excitement can enable them to forget.” An early chapter is called “Rights and Functions” and in it he mentions how the foundation of society is primarily concerned with exercising rights, and only later with functions. It’s shocking how the pursuit of property rights has harmed the function of public health. I was surprised recently to learn that for three years prior to the pandemic life expectancy was falling in the US.
A reduction in life expectancy is practically GUARANTEED in any post-industrial nation whose elected government consistently refuses to adopt a policy of universal healthcare, and where the number one cause of personal bankruptcy for more than a decade has been medical bills and associated debt.
Corporate execs and government employees get free medical care, but private sector workers earning less than $30K per year will soon be dying before they receive their first social security check: any American born after 1959 must be 67 years old to qualify.
Hi Bradley. I read the point about life expectancy, in the US, in “The Triumph of Injustice” by Saez and Zucman. These authors point out that another recent example of life expectancy falling was the transition from communism in what is now Russia. Wasn’t this called “shock therapy” by economists in the 90s? Have you ever read Tawney? This book was written in the 1920s I believe. You can see your point in his discussion of health care as an “industry” as opposed to a “profession” with standards.
Thanks for the reading recommendations.
My perspective was shaped to a great degree by the betrayal of Boxer the cart horse in the book “Animal Farm by George Orwell (Eric Arthur Blair).
The working class in the U.S. which was born in the post-WWII era have seen the consolidation of 90% of all wealth into the hands of less than 200,000 American families. Tens of millions of working men and women born after 1955, were directly responsible for the growth and success of the U.S. economy up to the post-9/11 debt cycle and sub-prime banking default. These victims of the largest corporate bailout in history, are the same workers being made to wait even longer for their social security.
Like the workers in every society, they were exploited by political parties and abused by the interests of corporate wealth… but unlike every other industrialized economy U.S. workers are not GUARANTEED medical care!
These men and women now remain in the harness until death, serving their paymasters in order to avoid foreclosure on reverse mortgages that pay for medical expenses. And just like Boxer they have been sold to the glue factory by the Pigs before they are even dead.
Get the vaccine. Don’t get the vaccine. I couldn’t care less since the fewer mouths to feed and bodies to house and raw materials necessary to satisfy indoctrinated wants, the better the rest of us will be. Nature has a way of weeding out the ignorant.
Just don’t expect me to pay for your hospitalization when you unvaccinated bunch show up with a life-threatening bout of Covid-19, variant-type irrelevant. Go home and die. Please!
SPLF
Exactly….[insert f-word here] ‘em if they can’t take a poke.
What about having an antibody passport rather than a vaccine passport? It’s antibodies that keep you from illness, not the vaccine or illness that produces them. Everyone should need a level of antibodies to reach heard immunity. How you get them is irrelevant.
I personally got the Moderna shots and booster. As a result, I’ve become autistic and my math capabilities have expanded exponentially. I’m in constant contact with Bill Gates via my 5G microchip and am ready to serve the empire on a moments notice. I also think the vaccine may have made me gay. I’ve been mesmerized with anuses lately. They are amazing really. They can sense all states of matter — solid, liquid and gas with very high levels of accuracy. Thanks Moderna, but mostly thank you Donald J. Trump for funding their development with money borrowed from China.
Recent annual worldwide mortality stats for influenza have been less than 650,000.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6815659/
Reality is, the OVERWHELMING majority of Physicians in this country and world for that matter, absolutely agree with Marty on this. Marty is and has been one of the biggest proponents of vaccines. Do not try and say otherwise, you will fail. Hes a huge fan of these vaccines. He simply opposes mandates, particularly boosters “for all” when there is literally, still LITERALLY ZERO data supporting such a “policy” and SIGNIFICANT data showing an mRNa booster for a healthy 19 year old college kid, is more dangerous than that kid contracting covid-19. Ton of data, published, established and quite clear. Plenty of studies and Data that NO ONE , NO ONE UNDER 40 should be getting Moderna vaccine period, much less a third dose. fyi theres a reason most everywhere but US has either BANNED use of moderna in that age group or requires an official opt in acknowledging that someone under 40 is 2x more likely to suffer from myocarditis from a moderna vaccine than from covid-19 induced myocarditis.
Marty loves these vaccines. He encourages vaccines, he does not encourage(nor any sane doctor) catching covid-19 in substitute for vaccination. He simply acknowledges the fact, as much Of a fact as we get in medicine/science that natural immunity is at least as strong and considerable data, solid strong data showing significantly better.
No bigger proponent of these vaccines than Marty. No bigger OPPONENT of withholding , ignoring or hiding data by the CDC in order to pacify a admins desire for cookie cutter msging, rather than detailed, nuanced msging. Which is factually, 100% taking place,
Natural immunity is by far the best, as the injection is not a vaccine and only counters one protein whereas the body creates antibodies for all variants. The cure is in prevention and treatment, not vaccination that offers minimal protection with no studies available yet of any long term effects, and evidence of fatality and disability have already surfaced and are being kept from the pubic.
The very fact that everyone (well media people and close-minded conformists) are maligning alternative treatments, the fact that it’s not being studied or scientifically pursued, the fact that data is being ignored or misrepresented or skewed or marginalized to the point it’s not even a talking point, the malignant dialogue that is being thrown around (oh, you’d rather bolster your immune system with these alternatives, take care of yourself and employ sensible hygiene [yes, masks] only? you must be an anti-vaxxer flat-farther trumper!”, the fact that dissidents get silenced or de-platformed tells me there is obvious fuckery going on, it tells me a lot actually. I was privy to this BS throughout the years of my interest in geopolitics, media propaganda, etc and this is not lost on me now. I think if people can just take a step back see the nature of the language people use, how people talk on media platforms, the push, the agenda, the silencing of critics, then they would see this issue impartially.
turns out you were fucking wrong the whole time
This clearly isn’t FAIR journalism. I skimmed through these archives and can quickly see this is very much media bias in a whole new way. I can imagine that back in 1986 FAIR started out to do a good thing, then over time became an indoctrinated and biased organization. I get it, it’s confusing to stay honest and also “left.” Come on…..be brave. Step away from the safety net of the concept of being “left” and take a walk into integrity and honesty. Be free. What you are producing now is not even close to what your mission statement says. How can you not see this? So disappointing. And I only learned about FAIR because of Kurt Cobain. If only he were alive today. So sad what has happened to the world.