The sentencing phase of the Bradley Manning trial currently underway is where the government is attempting to show the real world harm done by Manning and WikiLeaks. They’re not having much luck—but perhaps they should call in Time columnist Joe Klein.
As the Washington Post reported today (8/1/13), retired Brig. Gen. Robert Carr testified about the work that was done by his Information Release Task Force—a 125-person group that “operated 24 hours a day, seven days a week” at a cost of $6.2 million—all to establish the harm done by Manning.
So what did they find?
On Wednesday, Carr contended that at least one Afghan national was killed as a result of the disclosure of the battlefield reports from Afghanistan. He said the conclusion was based on a Taliban statement that the group had killed the Afghan.
On cross-examination, however, the general acknowledged that his task force was unable to identify the individual by name. The judge in the case, Col. Denise Lind, ruled that the testimony would not be admitted into the record.
And according to the New York Times (8/1/13):
“We were very concerned that folks might choose not to talk to us anymore because the information that came out could be detrimental to their livelihood,” General Carr said.
Pressed by one of Private Manning’s lawyers, Mr. Carr could not cite specific data showing the effect of the leak on the number of foreign civilians and emissaries talking to the United States, though he said he knew of examples.
Asked whether he was aware of anyone who had been harmed by the disclosures, General Carr said he knew of an Afghan national who had been killed by the Taliban. But a defense lawyer jumped in, objecting that the individual’s name had not been found in leaked documents, a point that General Carr acknowledged.
Either the task force was a bust, or the government is calling the wrong witnesses to make its case. They might want to consider Time columnist Joe Klein. After all, a few weeks ago on MSNBC‘s Hardball (6/12/13), he said this:
I’ll tell you something, the real scandal here is that Bradley Manning, the guy who is at the heart of the WikiLeaks scandal, his disclosures put a lot of lives at risk overseas. I know this for a fact, people who were talking to the United States government in places like China all of a sudden had to hide, leave the country. You know, do whatever to survive. This—that is a disgrace. They should throw the book at that guy.
The government spent $6 million and couldn’t prove this; Klein says he knows “for a fact” that bad things happened. They should have just asked him and saved a lot of money.
“The government spent $6 million and couldn’t prove this; Klein says he knows “for a fact” that bad things happened. They should have just asked him and saved a lot of money.”
Or they need to talk to Klein’s psychic–or psychologist.
But why ask anyone when all that must be done is a quick search through the NSA database.
“… That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it… it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government…” I’d say Manning was in accordance with our Founding Fathers.
This from the guy who even turned Joe Scarborough’s stomach with his callous disregard for the lives of Pakistani children killed in drone strikes. Like he cares about the harm done to anybody, give me a break!
klien knows for a fact the same way Mit Romany knew for a fact he was going to win the 2012 Presidential Election.
Truth
In the absence of the ability to put the ruling elite and their minions (AKA politicians), apologists and propagandists (AKA pundits), and stenographers (AKA reporters) on trial then in prison, it is nice to see them scramble to do damage control only to get themselves in deeper doodoo! Even the highly brainwashed citizens of the US aren’t buying their lies. Love it! Thanks for the entertainment Bradley and Edward! I’ve been immensely enjoying myself. Sorry you conscientious and brave heroes have to pay such a big price for what every other decent human being would have done in your shoes.
I’m afraid this pleasure is only short-lived. We are now fast moving towards planetary corporate fascism with surveillance that would put a chill down Orwell’s spine. I grew up in a dictatorship and I remember it got to a point that everyone who criticized the government was labeled a “terrorist”. We are heading that way. It’s a shame. The US bore so much hope towards real demo-cracy.
It seems to me that Manning is someone that about 95% of this country could get behind. Take out the 4.99% that are just stupid or crazy and the .01% that has any power or skin in the game. The rest of us – liberals, conservatives and libertarians should all be standing up for a man who is blowing the whistle on the crap that has been going on in the halls of power. And, you can add Snowden to this as well. We should be canonizing them, not incarcerating them.
There used to be a time that we stood up for whistle blowers.
Sadly, it’s the ones in power that are threatened by the light of day that hold the reins on prosecution…or persecution.
Joe Klein is full of it. But no one should be too surprised. For example he believes Israel has no peace partners and never had one. So in his head neither Israel’s treaties with Egypt and Jordan ever happened nor is there a mountain of Arab peace signals and out right offers in declassified Israeli archives dating back to 1950.
Hard to believe that Klein once, a long time ago, was writing about Woody Guthrie and Pete Seeger.
And I wonder if he thought at the time it became public knowledge, or now in retrospect, that Dan Ellsberg did disgraceful things and should have the book thrown at him?
Is what Bradley Maning did, or for that matter, what Edward Snowden has been doing, any more “disgraceful” than what Dan did?
What has been compromised by the revelations of Snowden or the young P.F.C.? What can be accomplished by putting these young Americans lives on hold for x amount of years. Who was punished for the lies that got America into the war with Vietnam, Iraq and what is American gaining by loosing lives in Afonenesan? We Americans should wake and realize that we are being taken for a ride by power handlers that only have their personal interest in mind.
words cant hurt anyone. gov admits manning leaks didnt put anyone at risk.
arrest who arrested manning. ban from gov jobs who thinks manning should be charged.
‘causing intelligence to be published’, ‘transmitting defense information’, is freedom of press and speech.
manning’s search and seizure is lawful there was probable cause of crime/gov misconduct.
legal to search and seize if their is probable cause of crime, and record or share that info
manning’s leaked video is probable cause. leaked word docs might have included conspriacy or reported misconduct(both should be reported).
leaking classified info is legal. breaching a paid confidentality contact may result in oweing a refund and loss of occupational licence, not arrest. gov confidentiality agreements to keep info secret that is sapose to be public, is illegal and a void contract. leaking classified info that is sapose to be public, or is probable cause of gov misconduct, is honorable, deserve reward, and what people are sapose to do.
espionage/spying=to look at/listen to/record someone/something w/o their knowledge or permission, and is legal if its looking at/listening to/recording public property, the outside of things that are outside or in public, anything you have permission to see, things w probable cause or potentially resonable suspicion of finding evidence of crime/gov misconduct, and gov info that is legally sapose to be public
it is good order and disapline to expose gov’s crimes, hideing gov’s crimes is wrong.
its good to discredit gov members when they commited crimes or arnt doing their job(that is sapose to be protecting people’s rights, not protecting criminals from exposure and proescution)
its good to expose info of w reasonable suspcion of a crime with reason to beleive such info could be used agianst criminals.
it is mils job to report and stop crime(includeing crime that occurs within mil
the law is sapose to apply to everyone=no special laws that only apply to mil and no one else.
fire gov workers who press charges against people who search and seize gov’s property w proable cause of finding evidence of a crime
fire gov workers who want to fire or press charges agianst people for searching and seizeing gov’s property with probable cause of find evidence of gov-crime or gov-misconduct(crime includes gov searching and seizeing non-gov’s property w.o resonable suspcion)
gov who hypocritically searches and seizies w/o reasonable suspcion, or wants to cover up govs crimes agianst transparency laws within the consitution(that declare the public is sapose to know all gov does(exsept maybe certian info w 75% of the public’s permit), is a traitor who betrayed their oath to defend the consitution and supreme laws of the land, and betrayed the public by lieing to them saying they are there for national security when actualy they breach national secuirty, and only secure gov criminals from being prosecuted.
manning was honest with the public and upheld his orignal oath to the consitution and transparency laws, he isnt a traitor.
if he lied to tyrants in order to get access to info the public is legally owed, tyrants might lable him traitors, otherwise tyrants cant declare him a traitor
only criminals say exposeing/leaking evidence of crimes is aiding the enemy because law-abideing people that try to stop crime are a criminal’s enemy.
the public and the gov includes criminals/the enemy.
gov is subject to transparency laws that non-gov isnt subject to
its legal to share (gov info that is legally sapose to be published) with the public
public sector(gov) is sapose to be the public’s employees and be publicly viewable
corrupt gov says: gov’s classified crimes if exposed put national security at risk.(actually its the oposite, …its good for national security to expose gov’s crimes. it puts national security at risk for gov to cover up its crimes or spy on the whole public- it puts criminals at risk of being caught if their crimes are exposed)
whistle blower law-cant legally get in trouble for reporting crime/gov-misconduct
its gov’s job to report and try to stop crime/gov-misconduct, and protect everyone=under the law=not letting some get away w the same type of misconduct you dont let others get away with, =no spying on everyone while at the same time disallowing everyone to spy on you
require gov workers report gov-misconduct and gov’s activity that is suspected to be misconduct or else get fired and owe wage refund. (exsept if your likely to be punished if you reported-however you must still do whatever you can to report in a safe way. reward anyone who reports gov misconduct under risk.
allowing criminals who spy on entire non-gov w/o their permit, or murders who kill innocents, to go unpunished puts everyone at risk.
put gov under 24-7live public video survailence. subject gov to suprize inspections done by non-gov unpaid by gov.
activate mass protests and petitions to arrest who arrested manning
anyone who illegally searches/seizes documents/pcs/videos/pety non survival items(manning didnt do, nsa did) shouldnt be arrested, should be banned from gov jobs, and maybe sml fine.
fire gov workers who spy on entire non gov before you even think about fireing someone who exposes govs crime.
charge nsa with espionage. gov is like a cheatah doesnt want its prey to see it, and wants to be able to see its prey
some corrupt gov workers wrongly lable law-abideing average people terrorists based on speech or political/religious beleifs, because corrupt gov is terrified of law-abideing people that want to expose and stop corruption.
“As the Washington Post reported today (8/1/13), retired Brig. Gen. Robert Carr testified about the work that was done by his Information Release Task Force–a 125-person group that ‘operated 24 hours a day, seven days a week’ at a cost of $6.2 million–all to establish the harm done by Manning.”
That’s just the price of keeping America free from truth and democracy, folks… (freedom is not free, etc?!!)
i think that the United States still has a lot of explaining to do to the People about what injures a nation.
As to soldiers who truly damage a country,how about the soldiers who peeded on dead enemy soldiers, burned Korans, lied and tried to cover up mass murder of civilians….not to forget the people defined as the enemy who were forced to wear black pointy hoods, and be led around by dog collars. Of course, too, the “powers” also gave out bounty money to capture the “enemy.” So….we have lots of people in Guantanomo who have never been charged with any crime, nor is there any proof beyond what the bounty collectors said as they collected their bounty money..
How can anyone say that Bradley Manning endangered anyone, when some of the soldiers and commanders in this very nation, including elected officials and friends of said officials have “released information” to the public for personal political purposes only, which endangered Americans and others aound the world?.
Many of the returniing and injured soldiers too seem to have been dissed by these”powers” that have forgotten them and prefer to spend money on building a case with strange evidence. For all the time and money spent on this, how many injured veterans and military families have lost out? How much have all the people of this nation lost too?
Bradley Manning showed that there are soldiers who respect laws created from the Nurenberg trials. Soldiers and officials and entire countries are responsible for knowing that “just folllowing orders,” is not a defense!
What the world has learned is that Bradley Manning is the kind of soldier that honest nations need! How can anyone be a traitor when the military covers up unlawful war crimes and condem the truth tellers and whistleblowers?
Sometimes, there is a moment in time, where there is a right thing to do, and people speak up and the world is changed in that instant.
What If….such a wonderful question. What if…whenever a war crime was discovered, that this nation, or any nation really responded to say….we have failed the soldiers, the citizens and the other nations of the world. To blame the whistleblowers for speaking truth and saying that this one or that one has ruined the nation, is so transparently false and sad.
Have we created a nation where if one wants a military career, then one has to fail to notice anythng illegal or immoral? Does truth make a military career impossible?
What if there was a real chain of command, and military leaders had to be responsible for the acts of their soldiers? What if soldiers knew that if they spoke the truth, someone somewhere would hear them and act?
What if, on that one day, that someone in the Pentagon heard and saw, and acted, instead of hiding the truth?
What if….. for all of these if’s?
America would be the cradle of modern democracy, and as actions speak louder than words…..none of this time and money would have been misused and wasted on denying the truths. Other nations of the world would be more than happy to believe that America and the Statue of Liberty really meant something.
What if…I’d like to live in that nation, and I think so would just about all the other people of the world.
Im not sure I even understand the idea that you should care or even look for(beyond intels job)the harm he did in relation to what he did.You don’t say to a bank robber…”what harm did he really do”?The law is the law.He broke it,he has been convicted, and his sentence should be set according to the law.
Wow. Joe Klein is a real sack of dung. Please notice how many other things these puffy gas bags claim, without citing any examples at all,to “know”..its that magic rich white man intuition.. they just feel these things in their brooks brothers underwear.
Free spirit……Your framing of all these issues is the problem.The law is blind.The people enforcing it are not.And we are not forcing anyone to enforce the law.The whistleblower laws don’t apply to either case.They did not follow the procedure for such things.Bush torture facilitators are truly an ugly underbelly.I wish their faces could be splashed across the press, and that they be dragged into the light also.As for trying Bush for such things….that is simply not possible.Morally I think it was an abomination.The Collateral video is being parsed by news stories like FAIR.Though proof of innocent deaths in a war are horribly common place.A soldier is strictly guided by his commanders orders on engagement.Man enters with a gun or an RPG and innocents die in the attack….The only question is were his orders correctly enforced.And were those orders correct.Top down?Wall street did not create the meltdown.Fanny and Freddy did.A Dem social program.The bank won coming AND going.Today Wall street is kept afloat by this government printing 800 billion dollars.Even a wiff that the Fed will stop printing creates a crash.New york times has a good article today on that.So wall street and the rich are kept rich by this massive ponzi scheme.Fault is the governments.Not theirs for being IN the system.The telecom systems are cowed by government power into giving up their abilities.Fault the government.Obama on killing US citizens?????Wartime does give him certain powers.But be more specific please.Now how about we talk about the fact that Obamas personal army has bought up billions of rounds of Ammo.What for.All of this connects.We are collapsing.And this government means to protect itself against you….and me if need be.Laws are coming second.We in the tea party are asking the tough questions.People on this sight are producers…….of smoke screens.Electing Mitt and Ryan I truly believe would of been a step in the right direction.I think both men were honorable truthful men.What we have now is disastrous.Culture of corruption.Every day a new eruption!
They should ask anybody a MSNBC or Hal Sparks. Hal knows, he says Bradly Manning got lots of people killed every time he’s on the Stephanie Miller Show.
free spirit…First im not a republican.Im a tea party conservative who is socially very liberal in many things.I do have compassion.Much more than you.anyone who would look at the track record of this president and his party and still vote for him is the definition of being without compassion.They create wreckage with every step they take.They are progressives, as many of the rights Washington elite is.And that spells disaster.They pander with the one hand ,while the other hand hidden behind their back siphons off your very life blood.The left is awash with people who care.I say that with massive sarcasm.As far as would I follow an immoral, illegal, dishonest government more than lets say you?I don’t know.I did not vote for Obama(or Bush for that matter).And I would never vote for a Hilary presidency.So how a bout you?
万年筆 手入れ
good . weldone