MSNBC‘s Morning Joe had a remarkable discussion of U.S. drone attacks today (10/23/12). Here’s a clip of the most intense moments of the exchange between the conservative-leaning Joe Scarborough and Time columnist Joe Klein, who is occasionally mistaken for a liberal:
Scarborough offered up a more passionate critique of drone attacks than you’re likely to hear from his left-leaning MSNBC colleagues: “If you’re between 17 and 30, and you’re within a half-mile of a suspect, we can blow you up.”
When Klein interjects to argue that drones are “decimating bad guys,” Scarborough responds that the attacks are “taking out a lot of innocent people as well.”
Klein marvels at the notion that drones provide the advantage of not needing pilots anymore. The killing can be done via a “joystick from California,” which causes Scarborough to respond:
You have four-year-old girls being blown to bits because we have a policy that says, “You know what, instead of trying to go in, take the risk, get the terrorists out of hiding… we’re just going to blow up everyone around them.”
Scarborough went on to declare:
Listen, I hate to sound like a Code Pink guy here, I’m telling you this is causing, this collateral damage that seems so clean with a joystick from California, this is going to cause the U.S. problems in the future.
Klein’s retort is remarkable:
The bottom line, in the end, is: Whose four-year-old gets killed? What we’re doing is limiting the possibility that four-year-olds here are going to get killed by indiscriminate acts of terror.
The idea that the U.S. should be killing children in other countries to prevent children from being killed here is chilling. The opposite argument, that avoiding killing innocent people in other countries will make it less likely that innocents in America will be attacked, is far more plausible: As we should understand by now, people motivated to commit acts of terrorism against the United States often say they are doing so in response to violent acts carried out by the United States.
Klein’s logic is not likely to stop future acts of terrorism; on the contrary, it all but guarantees such acts will occur.
Let’s be clear here.
Scarborough’s engaging in fantasy when he compares the horrors of drone strikes to, as he puts it, “trying to go in, take the risk, get the terrorists out of hiding… ”
Either method results in the death of innocents, both violate international law, and both run roughshod over the rights of the accused, making the President and his surrogates judge, jury and executioner.
As for Klein’s response …
I’d call it a not-so-distant cousin to a precept that has informed US imperialism since its initial manifestation:
“Kill ’em all
Let God sort ’em out”
And what a crock of shit that those tribal peoples in Pakistan would be launching attacks here, if we weren’t attacking there first. Now of course they might in the future.
Pundits at MSNBC, Current TV, etc. should not only be exposing Romney for his misdeeds, but they should also be exposing Obama for his misdeeds:
1. Children killed in Drone attacks in Pakistan.flv http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eON9K0DNso8
2. Obama’s TPP Disaster http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbrNyQdRYMI … …
3. Julian Assange to UN: US is trying to build a ‘regime of secrecy’ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmQwvgvR1S8
4. Diane Ravitch on Obama’s Charter Schools & Race To The Top: http://youtu.be/A_HwI6S92Eo
5.From Guantánamo to NDAA: Obama Admin Bids to Preserve Indefinite Detention at Home and Abroad http://www.democracynow.org/2012/9/18/obama_admin_appeals_ndaa_ruling_in
6. Barack Obama skips Rio+20 Earth summit http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/jun/13/barack-obama-skips-rio
7. Michael Moore Says Obama’s DOJ & DHS Are Coordinating Efforts To Destroy Occupy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=My4iVWcGxhI&feature=youtu.be … …
8. Biden’s Cozy Relations With Bank Industry: http://www.propublica.org/article/bidens-cozy-relations-with-bank-industry-825
9.Obama, Romney ‘Trade Pact’ Malarkey vs. Reality: The Data Is In:
http://economyincrisis.org/content/obama-romney-trade-pact-malarkey-vs-reality-the-data-is-in
10. Jill Stein Arrested Before Hofstra Debate, Campaign Reports (VIDEO)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/16/hofstra-debate-jill-stein-arrested-green-party_n_1971960.html?utm_hp_ref=elections-2012
11. Bill Clinton got to leave office before his misdeeds (NAFTA, GATT, TCA, PRWORA, GLB, CFMA) began to slowly poison our country!
12. Most “liberal” pundits in 2009 were wrong when they told their audiences Obama would CERTAINLY fight for a Public Option and Card Check; so their opinions should be taken with a grain of salt!
Morning Joe should invite third party presidential candidates Jill Stein and Rocky Anderson on to express their views about Obama and Romney.
Obama and Romney Agree on Afghan War, Israel and Syria, Third Parties Give Alternative Views:
http://www.democracynow.org/2012/10/23/exclusive_as_obama_and_romney_agree
Well written and clear. Thank you.
I don’t agree with Scarborough very often … but I do on this.
9/11 was blow back – Revenge for USgov’s behavior. That was only the beginning and it only took 19 men to completely change the USA
Our Eurasian grandchildren ask, Will you Barry ME:
http://www.sott.net/image/image/s4/80028/full/Raid_201.jpg
Every year 101,000 U.S. lives are lost due to “ameniable mortalities” resulting from lack of access to life-saving medical needs. That’s over a million since 9/11. Where are all the two-bit politicians on that sad fact? Is it ok when we kill our own?
Is this 1984 or the Brave New World? A little of both, I think. It all makes me very, very sad.
What an absolutely cruel and savage country we have become.
what kleiun refuses to understand, and what people like him continue to refuse to understand, is that unless you can kill everyone else but yourself, you going to remain in danger. the thing that reasonable people need to be shouting out from every roof top is that the killers drones of kelin and his ilk are not about provding “security” to the US…they are about, 1 defense contract, 2 defense contacts and 3 testing and perfecting ways of killing people, right here in the US, when they feel that capitalism and thier wealth and prestige are ever threatened.
Fewer Taliban is not a bad thing … and if these hunted SOBs want to gather their children around them while they’re at war… there will be fewer potential Taliban. Blame daddy, not us!
Morning Joe’s hypocrisy is nauseating as he was all for the Iraq War;wish we could send him a collage of all the dead.injured,orphaned,raped children in Iraq. Dick Cheney and media stooges like Joe are accountable for the horrendous suffering of millions of innocent in Iraq.
Sort of like Joe’s new hero is IKE, holy shit, now acceptable to honor the guy who would have banned RR and his 6 Trillion for defense…cannot have it both ways JOE…stick to your core war hawk beliefs,we have you in print and on Tape,IKe said he would not want to be in the same room with someone proposing preemptive war.
What an utterly contemptible comment that was from Bob Walton.
Romney 5 generations not one minute of military Service. Not every family can say that. So I wonder when he talks his chicken hawk crap who’s family members will die………. Oh now I know……MINE
We are not “aiming”for children.But collateral damage is a meaningless word -if it were your child.Many people on this sight blame the US for every war death..It is as if there is no radical muslim terrorist element out there.Just us.And they forget the good old days when Saddam was alive,and killing 1500 Iraqis a month…or a week.That was Ok I suppose.It was none of our business.Now as few Iraqis die in combat –
iraqi children die of exposure to toxic chemicals.Much from our weapons.I hope we move to help these people.Im sure we will.The reports sighted derive from Drs reports on sight, in these areas.Reports ordered by our government.I believe we will do our best to turn this birthrate around.In Afghanistan our drones kill innocents while hitting our enemies.Weapons of the future.Weapons that stop the need to bomb cities like Dresden in WW2 killing 70,000.But still many die.And Bob is correct in one respect.These cowards do use their families ,and any innocents they can find to hide behind.The easy thing is to blame the USA first and foremost.I still in my mind see those people jumping from the world trade towers.It is not so simple as some on these sights would have you believe.
A bunch of smart compassionate people and then Bob Walton. It surprises me that he can even read.
What if they find a “suspected” terrorist in the U.S. Are they going to send a drone to blow them, along with innocent people too. When are people going to stand up and say enough is enough. The Federal government is shredding the bill of rights, and ignoring the constitution. Where is the outrage? The “war on terror” is really a war for corporate profits, and a war to take away our liberties and freedoms. Wake Up!
Yeah Kevin……Those people jumping out of the twin towers were to blame.Those evil people trying to work hard for the evil liberal word….(profit).Those folks who flew the planes,they were not to blame.In fact THEY were trying to fight those who were trying to take away our freedoms.What i get from your post is you never understood what the war against terrorism was.You dont understand how, or why, drones or any forward weapons systems are used by the president.You seem to only understand the birds nest of counter intuitive nonsense spun by the left.So be it.If you are a liberal I am amazed you tried to use the constitution to make your point.Is that maybe the only thing you believe in the constitution of the United states?.The one thing you believe makes your point?Well if it helps you to drag out that thing you refer to as a rag- then thats ok by me.
H Coats……….You should of said “A bunch of not so smart,but compassionate people”When referring to the left leaning writers here.They are I think compassionate(but who really knows).Bottom line is they are invariably on the wrong side of the coin.Always on the hate America bandwagon.They seldom are able to disseminate any amount of information- without getting snagged on the idea that they live in the country that is the true evil in the world.In the end as Mitt said THEY ARE NOT ONE OF US!
Once again, you completely misunderstand what a poster is saying, and what with the poster’s intent being crystal clear. Do you even read the posts? Gibberish and irritable right-wing sentiment from you, as usual.
Tim if you think 911 has nothing to do with the sadness happening in these war zones than your off the mark.The post talks of so many things as if they all happen in a vacuum.That is how Fair plays it.They set the ball up for all their liberal robots(and socialists), who nod their little pin heads in unison.Along I come sounding like nails on a chalk board to your ears…..”Hey guys I think your forgetting something here”Sorry ….Im gonna try to bring the truth home however much you hate to hear it.
Of course I read the posts Tim.But every post on fair begins in a way(or ends in a way), that attacks right wing or American values.Then were supposed to roll with that biased approach.Im the (as the president would say)bump in the road.I don’t play the game.The premise is usually so biased as to make the piling on of sentiment ridiculous.Thats why this often turns into a liberal circus.
This story is a good example.If I were a green man from space ,and read this… I would believe that the US is launching these attacks because we were bored.How about FAIR recap 911.Play the video from that day on their talking points segment. Don’t be a part of the brain drain .Keep the reason we have sacrificed so much fresh in peoples minds.
“American and right-wing values? Murdering innocent people is certainly a right-wing value, and non-chalantly wiping out peoplewith drones is fast becoming an American value. Do you dispute what Klein said? Do you dispute what drones do? That’s why I and others have such contempt for “right-wing values.” Obviously you have no problem with our drone murder program, and you never learned, way back when, that two wrongs don’t make a right.