In the New York Times today (9/20/10), Michael Shear writes:
But as the first full week of the 2010 general election season opens across the country on Monday, Washington is scheduled once again to debate immigration and gay men, lesbians and bisexuals in the military, two deeply divisive social issues that threaten to polarize the conversation on the campaign trail.
Repealing “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell” is widely supported by the public. Public opinion on immigration policy is somewhat more complex; this story is referring tothelegislation known as the DREAM Act,which would provide a path to citizenship for students who have been here five years and are either attending college or have served in the military. One survey found 70 percent support for the proposal.
It would be much more helpful if reporters explained that when theytalk about “divisive social issues” that will “polarize” the election campaign season, they mean that a handful of Republican politicians will very loudly endorse the views of a shrinking segment of the public.
Well Congress left- as usual leaving all this up in the air.As well as leaving business not knowing what the tax structure will be after the next 3 -4 months creating a paralyzing effect.Truth is the Democratic congress is… and has been paralyzed.Even a super majority did not help.Now that they are running for the hills from Obama and cant decide which end is up if the polls don’t tell them.The press cant blame the republicans cause in the end their say means little.This is all smoke and mirrors.People on these blogs know I am a conservative,and I like many of my colleagues could give a rats ass about this stuff.We can get back to playing these games after we save the country.And the first step is throwing out most f the standing congress.
michael e says:”We can get back to playing these games after we save the country.” Please remind me again who destroyed the country?
John Boener promises more of the same. Harry Reed hasn’t got a spine. We are all doomed.
The media really could help in this great debate if they did their job instead of what they do now–perhaps their toadying? Yes, it’s important that people have their truths reflected back to them–if they always hear that such issues are so divisive, they won’t realize that what is likely their own position is a majority position. Knowing that would, I think, make them more comfortable. Of course, it would be nice too if the media made it clear that some Repug positions are so far outside the real mainstream of our times that they belong in the 14th century. Ojala, as we say in Mexico (meaning it’s awfully unlikely).
Chris H. Who destroyed the country?Simple………we did.We voted in non representing unrepresentatives for a long long time.Some better- some worse.Some led in somewhat better times(and so got a bit of a pass like Clinton)and some have the worst of both worlds like Obama.He was left a shitty end of the stick make no doubt about it, on top of which…….HE HAS NOT A CLUE how to guide the ship of state.We must elect better people.There is no more time . Economically Obama is an absolute train wreck.His policies abroad are just as as horrible.Anyone watch how ah -ma -needs a job treated Obama at the UN?Obama groveled and Iran slapped him around like a red headed step child.We must do better than this.We must.
michael e: No I’m pretty sure its the GOP who destroyed the country along with the Supreme Court handing W his victory. As much as I’m disappointed in Obama’s leadership, thank God McCain/Palin arent steering the ship of state. With the districts gerrymandered and the Senate the most un-democratic institution ever dreamed up you can’t blame the people for having to choose the lesser of two evils every time.
Chris i have no idea if McCain would of spent us into oblivion ,and led an idiot move like the healthcare bill…carbon tax stym 1 stim 2 ,tarp etc…..He damn well might have.As far as I could ever see he was a Dem anyway.Not a socialist mind you but a Dem light Dem.Out of the four of these nincompoops maybe Palin would of put on the brakes but who can really say.She was only slightly better qualified than BAM and that aint saying much at all(as we have seen).Bush…Well Bush failed to stop Fanny and Freddy(though he tried 27 times)and their backers .Those lying ass, socialist- nanny state hacks- Franks …Dodd…Schumman….Waters.This was the trigger of the meltdown.Something I have been speaking on and warning about for going on 12 years now.He failed and I hold him responsible.They slipped it past him.By hook or crook.And he spent like a drunken sailor.He aint no Obama of course, but for a supposed conservative he was a nightmare.The war was not a textbook exercise in good use of intel..Massively expensive. With horrendous carnage attached on all sides.He carries the weight of the good and the bad global results of this lethal force being used during his tenure.That is the Job.Better him than me.As far as The supreme court giving Bush a victory….There have been 17 recounts. In Every grouping known to man.Bush won every one.It is all there still in the smithsonian.Look it up.By the way it was Gore who brought in the courts as you may recall. So Your pissing in the wind…..STILL!!!!!And Gore…..Gore is a serial assaulting, sky is falling, global warming, HUGE corporate 100 mil in the bank -greedy- capitalizing on peoples fears nut….So in hindsight thank God.
May i say if the American people were searching for the lesser of any evils….That there is no candidate I can ever recall – ever, ever, ever who was less qualified, and less able to carry the Job of president of the United States than Barrack Hussein Obama.I hate Hilary’s policies….But my God …BAM could not even apply for a post as her press secretary.His sinking star aside….How a bout we agree to take 90%of theGOP and 90% of the DNC and “TROW” them out on their over inflated heads.Then we will just grab folks off the street to fill the spaces.Cant be worse.
“As far as The supreme court giving Bush a victoryâ┚¬Ã‚¦.There have been 17 recounts. In Every grouping known to man.Bush won every one.It is all there still in the smithsonian.Look it up”
ok, i looked it up….
A study was spearheaded by a consortium of six major news organizations–the New York Times, Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, Tribune Co. (parent of the L.A. Times), Associated Press and CNN–plus two Florida papers, the Palm Beach Post and St. Petersburg Times. In an effort costing nearly $1 million in pooled funds and some 10 months’ work, the group rounded up uncounted ballots from all 67 Florida counties, then commissioned the University of Chicago’s nonpartisan National Opinion Research Center to examine them.
Each outlet independently crunched the votes according to nine recount scenarios and published the findings simultaneously on November 12.
The study’s key result: When the consortium tried to simulate a recount of all uncounted ballots statewide using six different standards for what constituted a vote, under each scenario they found enough new votes to have narrowly given the Florida election–and by extension the presidency–to Al Gore. Under three models that attempted to duplicate the various partial recounts that were asked for by Gore or ordered by the Florida Supreme Court, however, Bush maintained a slight margin of victory.
https://fair.org/index.php?page=1095
a short history of the housing meltdown:
-Wall Street securitizes whatever it can to satisfy the demand or higher yields.
-â┚¬Ã‚ÂLend to securitizeâ┚¬Ã‚ nonbank mortgage writers sell enormous amounts of subprime loans to Wall Street for this purpose.
-To meet this huge demand, non bank lenders collapse lending standards (banks eventually follow), leading to a credit bubble.
-The Fed approves of this â┚¬Ã…“innovation,â┚¬Ã‚ ignores risks.
-Housing booms . . . then busts
-Credit freezes, the markets collapse, a new recession begins.
as for fannie and freddie:
-The origination of subprime loans came primarily from non bank lenders not covered by the CRA;
-The majority of the underwriting, at least for the first few years of the boom, were by these same non-bank lenders
-When the big banks began chasing subprime, it was due to the profit motive, not any mandate from the President (a Republican) or the the Congress (Republican controlled) or the Government sponsored enterprises they oversaw.
-Prior to 2005, nearly all of these sub-prime loans were bought by Wall Street â┚¬” NOT Fannie & Freddie
-In fact, prior to 2005, the GSEs were not permitted to purchase non-conforming mortgages.
-After 2005, Fannie & Freddie changed their own rules to start buying these non-conforming mortgages â┚¬” in order to maintain market share and compete with Wall Street for profits.
-The change in FNM/FRE conforming mortgage purchases in 2005 was not due to any legislation or marching orders from the President (a Republican) or the the Congress (Republican controlled). It was the profit motive that led them to this action.
http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2010/05/rewriting-the-causes-of-the-credit-crisis/
Seriously…..You are giving fanny and freddy a pass?????????Wall st…..bankers,and any business with half a brain leverages themselves to win whether or not the game is a loser.This game was a loser going into Clinton and beyond to Carter.And yes right on through Rep presidents.I have read this claptrap for 12 plus years.When F and f moved as they did I told Franks personally in a heated argument that when they fell it would all come tumbling down.The discussion began and ended there.We were not talking about wall street or banks chasing subprime.All that is isthe jackals that come to feed.Fand f was the 1000 lbs of TNT.He knew it.I knew it.He said all would be well.You gauge the results
Thanks for doing the heavy lifting here, Woodward Bernstein, but as most of us know by now, facts do not matter to You Know Who. So, Chris H., keep that in mind next time you try to reason with someone who is utterly incapable of reason, rationality, and reflection. The three R’s, as it were.
P.S.: It sure seems like m.e. has cleaned up his prose and punctuation a bit, hasn’t it? He’s still daft, and no doubt still thinks he’s exercising his free-speech rights by coming in here and telling lies and spreading dis-information (this is the wrong place to do that, of course), but I like to imagine that my withering assaults on his general badness has caused him to be a bit more, um, reflective. The above post shows that our boy has a long, long, way to go, but these things don’t happen overnight.
It’s funny how the Fannie/Freddie mini-debacle so energizes the reactionaries, isn’t it? And the nonsense about the Businessman being upset and concerned and very paralyzed by not knowing what’s coming at them from that mean old Government. Both events are simply talking points, ways to keep the fantastic thievery and cosmic criminality of the Corporate world over the last ten years out of sight and out of mind, at least for a little while. It’s always best to blame the State when the Corporate actors it’s in bed with are the real culprits. That way we can have “change” (a bunch of imbecile right wingers) in November and the system will just keep grinding along. Indeed, for the libertarians in the bunch, throwing out any and all reform-minded types and replacing them with screeching reactionary Christers will be most excellent. Bad government is the best government of all, because bad government (or bought-off government) means no oversight and no rules.
Tim……Less all the nonsense,just say the words you need to say.That you want to say….You Believe Fanny and Freddy were innocent bystanders in this nightmare.And …..wait for it…..IT WAS ALL BUSHES FAULT!Wow what a change.
As far as Woodward goes…….So you find a play(that is what we call in politics something that supports your case but has no validity)and the world is supposed to swing to your argument.Notice though that George Bush stayed on in that little job called the prez.?So it seems the powers that matter(and the 17 recounts) gave short shrift to your conspiracy theorys.Hell I found over 400 stories that indicates McCain/Palin won the election with Obama.!!!!!Want me to copy and paste such things?It wont make it correct.In medicine we say -stay away from Google.It will prove every scratch will be the death of you.It is too broad.Med students also use different paths.In Politics pretty much it is a similar situation.You can find any argument from at least three sides.All three are not fact!You need a practiced hand to sift through the red herrings.I see all your searches driven by ideological archeology.Dig deep enough and you will find what you seek. Those guys do not last long on campaigns because the info is not strong enough to lean on.I doubt many of you worked in the trenches with candidates.Unless they all lost!So How about a change.Give your opinion guys.Do Not use your limited talents at finding differing viewpoints in the worldwide data base and printing the rubbish out.I print you print i print you print he prints we all prints!What is your gut telling you?So you still believe Bush stole the election,and the Dems were as innocent as a new born baby in all this meltdown.Ok I get it.Just say it.Forget the endless stealing of empty article hash -without accompanying opinion.I give opinion.You copy and insult.To this day I still have not heard what party Woodward and B belong to.What is your political affiliation/belief system guys?Or as clinton once said to one of his wonderkin boy brilliants …….”.Put you papers down and tell me what you think….if you have a thought at all”
Tim…General badness????um….wow
the economist:
No one factor caused the crisis, and that’s as true of the involvement of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac in mortgage markets as it is of anything else. The right question to ask is to what extent various factors contributed to the crisis. Where Fannie and Freddie are concerned, the answer would seem to be: some, but less than many may imagine.
Was it low interest rates? Sure, a little. Fannie and Freddie? They probably contributed some. Reckless financial institutions? You know it. A savings glut due to emerging market reserve accumulation? No doubt that had something to do with it.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2010/09/housing_markets_3
—————-
mark thoma:
The willingness of the non-traditional banking sector – the shadow banking system – to take on these risky assets and still pay investors a relatively high return put tremendous pressure on Fannie and Freddie to follow suit. And their response was unwise – Fannie and Freddie followed the shadow banking sector downward.
There is lots to fault in the behavior of Fannie and Freddie and in government oversight of them – the decisions of management, the lobbying efforts that were funded by their ability to extract a premium from the implicit government guarantee – all of this was a big problem. The bubble, and later the financial crisis expressed itself in these institutions, and they may have also contributed to it to some extent as they took on more risky securities when their business began to go elsewhere.
But the agency issues and the failures of risk models and securitization would have created problems in the largely unregulated shadow banking sector even if these two institutions had taken on nothing but the safest of mortgages. The bubble still would have inflated in the shadow banking system – maybe it’s a little smaller, I don’t know – but it still would have been large enough to cause big problems when it burst.
The best behavior of Fannie and Freddie would not have been enough to stop the bubble from inflating in other parts of the financial sector, and then turning into a full fledged financial crisis as housing prices plunged.
http://seekingalpha.com/article/98533-fannie-and-freddie-did-not-cause-this-crisis
————
i’ll note than m.e. didn’t dispute a single thing barry ritholtz [who, believe me, is no fan of fannie or freddie ]wrote…
micheal e “Hell I found over 400 stories that indicates McCain/Palin won the election with Obama.!”
print a link to one….let’s see it…
W and B you well know the stories i speak of.The red map vote overlay of the USA, that shows an almost complete red blanket vs the electoral College and the trailing quantitative math computations proving he could not of won.It ran in news stories across the country for weeks as well as internet.It is of course …bunk.Just as those people who believe our government was responsible for 911.Tens of thousands of print and internet ties to that little honey…..also bunk.How about Obama being a man of islam?Or how about his birth certificate ?That has run in publications beyond count.Bunk bunk bunk!Printing these stories amounts to little.If you continue to simply send links to support your opinion(that you do not give)realize we all can do that.Your opinion is what is requested here.Not a simple copy and paste of the first Lib talking points on any subject.
TimN: Just because m.e. uses “would of” instead of “would’ve” doesn’t necessarily make him wrong. But most of the rest of his verbiage does.
Dennis I will write you out a scrip(Eat a shit load of apples so I never have to see you). Wait till you see how horrendous my writing is. Worse even than my typing skills. Are you another lib concerned with punctuation and verbiage as our republic sinks into the sunset?. You must be a teacher(most teachers are libs i do believe)Why don’t you and the spell check girl(Tim) look into how many times Obama has said “Axed” instead of asked.Some fool keeps track of it on the net. Another Harvard grad.Oh well maybe we should find better roads of education he and I. Where did you go?That it may be of some small ray of hope for the Bamster and me ,would be truly charitable of you.
michael…one link…that’s all i’m asking..i have never heard anyone make that claim…
Well, yeah, Dennis Jones . . . take the whole shebang into account. I only skim the posts written by You Know Who. Again, getting all defensive and resentful because someone points out one’s awful grammar and syntax and ideas is no way to get anywhere with an argument, is it? One doesn’t need to go to Harvard to be able to (or perhaps more importantly, want to) write clearly and simply. Being able to write clearly is important–it certainly was to my parents, and their parents, and their parents. The most important thing I can convey to my students (when I’m teaching–I’m a substitute teacher, though not lately) is the fact they must learn to write, and at least write clearly. What’s the best way to learn to write? Start reading early, and often, and practice your writing as you go. And you know what, Dennis J.? There isn’t a Conservative alive worth his salt who doesn’t feel the same way I do about this. Or a Liberal. Or a Libertarian. Or anybody who took their schooling at least semi-seriously. Since when is it O.K. to be ignorant, or to ridicule writing that is intelligible, or thoughtful, or sensible, where the writer at least tried to spell and punctuate according to rules we all learned in grade school?
P.S.: Yeah, Woodward Bernstein, I never heard of that either. Let’s see if a bit of proof is forthcoming . . . .
my opinion: facts matter. that’s why i post them….
i also note that “There have been 17 recounts. In Every grouping known to man.Bush won every one.It is all there still in the smithsonian.Look it up”” is something else m.e. made up…
Tim …Well put and important for young people to strive to be good at whatever they undertake. And Obama with his endless mistakes in grammar, syntax and ideas all while working on a sanitized teleprompter….or mine, should not become the poster children for ” this is what happens to all of us”tome.But……….you are correct in saying I don’t give a damn.Sad but true- at least here.And if i may speak for Barrack i doubt he does at this point either.Time and a place.I have heard behind the scenes he talks with a much less cultured educated style than what we see when he is “on.I thought this was a liberal blog full of birkenstock shoes,tree huggers,pot smoking,abortionists willing to give their lives for baby seals and whales,sudo intellectual socialist fops.I felt free to let me hair down.Now I find I have to dig my suit out and act like an adult…..This sucks. Seriously for me this blog is a quick rantathon against people who espouse liberal mindset without a thought or belief that any other idea warrants anything but derision.If even one person here wakes up- that there are people out there(more than half the electorate) who feel very differently than the lockstep bloggers and writers on FAIR, than cool beans.You are a teacher.I understand your passion.But if someone is not so passionate about the same thing you are( (grammar or even careful spelling etc)it does not make them ignorant or stupid.Have you ever LOOKED at the average Medical Doctors handwriting?It would not pass muster in a class of 2nd graders.Yet stupid?Lazy?…. Yes yes yes…..Of course. But If I failed to get thoughts across than I must strive to do better.Some folks are very OCD ADD and it can be very irritating to concentrate, when things jump out at them(my guess with you).
We are far off subject though
Have you seen Bidon, and Carrey getting annoyed at Democratic voters and their problems with what is happening to this country?Obama saying just stop whining and vote.Dem legislators refusing to tow BAMS line anymore?These things refudiate so much of what and who you carry the water for- that I must ask………Who will carry the water for you when the dust settles?In the article above I loved that he wrote that Republicans will be the ones wanting to “loudly endorse” a social agenda.Wrong……they are the last ones who wish to get mired in that crap.That is always a win win for feel good Dem politics.Stupid beyond understanding as Rome burns of course.We have far deeper more important problems.
W and B There is a liberal madhouse and well as a conservative one.Thankfully small on both sides(although Obama’s world has let the buggers in to his ruling regime.Many in top spots.)In the conservative enclave these stories are legend and everywhere.If you want links to these crazy buggers and there ideas …..Remember even in conservative circles they are mocked.Yet in your circles the idea that Gore actually won (though given no legal power)is tantamount to a religious belief.The lunatics is done runnin the dang asylum!
“Hell I found over 400 stories that indicates McCain/Palin won the election with Obama.!!!!!Want me to copy and paste such things?”
michaelâ┚¬Ã‚¦one linkâ┚¬Ã‚¦that’s all i’m asking..i have never heard anyone make that claimâ┚¬Ã‚¦
also a link to the 17 recounts, please…
plus, gore won the national popular vote and 6 of the 9 recounts done by the media association showed he would have won florida too… see my post dated September 25th, 2010 at 9:58 pm up the page..
ps
the palm beach post did a study of local “undervotes” and found, if they had been counted, gore would have won enough votes locally to win florida
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/mar/12/uselections2000.usa
W and b……the smithsonian does not now house the total vote log?To the best of my knowledge that is where it is archived.If the hanging chad boatload has been moved….. i was not up to date on that.
W and B ….yeah and if frogs had wings they would not bump their ass when they jump.Media association?????Palm beach post?????Sweet dancing jesus that is a hoot.A hoot and a half.Give it up man.He lost.Confirmed by the count-s and counters.Confirmed by the courts.Confirmed by Gore himself when he finally …. “stepped off bitch”.And thank God that serial assaulter did not get in.Think of the carnage with the aids:)Sounds like he and Clinton talked on those bus trips about how to assault woman and slip it by the sycophant tools who lap at their feet.Give it up WB.Popular vote shmoat.That has happened before.He lost.Period……And became a bloated footnote in history.If I were you I would be angrier over how Obama and his bag of dirty tricks stole it from Hilary.As far as doing homework for you ….um yeah.I will do that for you and often.I will need three requests notorized and sent to my solicitor.Then it may take up to six weeks but we will get to you.I will tweak your interest though.I not only know where the story started(and went on to over 400 publications).I know who started it and in fact where he LIVES!.I even ran into him in Disney world recently .He is an interesting fellow.He is………very brilliant -yet not realistic.Also…..he is non aligned.Sorry that is all the hints i can give you.Oh ….he is a white christian who likes car racing .Im having too much fun.Have a good day guys.
Dont worry though,way things are going- there will be little doubt about the next Obama election count.He gonna be seeing red,Red state…red state…red state.
micheal i’m not asking for the “total vote log” i’m asking for a link to the 17 recounts you continue to claim exist…. sorry to say, but it’s becoming increasing obvious that you can’t
“Popular vote shmoat.” what kind of adult talks like that?
besides, what if the election had come out the other way…gore wins the electoral college while bush wins the popular vote.” imagine the outcry from micheal and his imaginary friends
Well first of all my outcry would of been based on the law,and the law only.I hated Bush and did not vote for him.My feelings on Gore was……he was a big old lump of soft cheese.So i had no horse in the race.I do think law was served in this case.The people who should be angry are the bums who did not vote,and who despised Bush.Tons of college kids in that area simply stayed home.The vote tally among that group was low.That is the lesson.
Popular vote shmoat?Why I talk that way.And sadly,sadly I am well into adulthood.No great accomplishment(I just did not die).
As far as sending links have you not noticed I don’t……Usually.If we want these blogs to degenerate into my source vs your source it is going to be a long drawn out dissengagement.I don’t comment on things I have not read through a thousand times.It is my opinion I am sending to you.Usually a hard fought and arrived at opinion.I am angered of the attitude on these blogs of simply reacting to everything with some passing on of links(usually from sources that are weak)i don’t add to that.And I feel that sometimes it is like talking to a 5 year old who keeps saying prove it prove it over and over.He doesn’t want proof.He will not accept proof.He is just annoying.Lord M in the global warming debate is a perfect example.He is well respected(and feared) as a witness before our highest bodies.But you insult and discount all he says(and insult those bodies of government who do not)because to listen to him would mean there is no Santa.So you dig and dig and dig to find anything unflattering about him.Some sources good but almost all compromised(if you took the time to really look).Look send on your links.I have learned from them.But I do wish you would give your opinion and your political alignment so I know more how YOU are compromised.
I talked to a friend who is involved in the actual data basing of those votes.I called him recently and hit him with a few questions.He told me There are thousands of requests for the chance to carry out a recount.The material is being prepared for such things.IN the future who knows it may be part of a study plan for our universities of political science and math .AS of now there have been more- far more counts of those tickets than has been even reported(his words).Of course we would expect that.It is possibly one of the most important decisions in this countries history.So the number 17 is the number thrown about but is in fact wrong.It is on the low side even of recognized recounts.(REmember there were several even in the first period of this debate).As far as who really won.I have never heard anyone who is in any position of….who actually wanted a removal of Bush due to a bad count.Gore is firmly in that box. History I believe will prove to most that Bush won a very close election.Proving every vote counts. Totally disproving the morons who claim that due to our electoral college their votes mean little.