George Will (cc photo: Keith Allison)
George Will’s January 1 column in the Washington Post was a laundry list of familiar criticisms of progressives and Democrats—they worry too much about climate change, for instance.
Another non-problem, in Will’s world, is student loan debt:
Political logic suggests that this year Obama will try to rekindle the love of young voters with some forgiveness of student debts. But one-third of students do not borrow to pay college tuition. The average debt for those who do borrow to attend a four-year public institution is $22,000, and the average difference between the per-year earnings of college graduates and those with only a high school diploma is … $22,000.
I guess one lesson is that 2/3 of college students should either get themselves full scholarships or wealthier parents. But in the event that this isn’t possible, never fear—you’ll make enough money in a hurry to pay off your debt.
The more important question might be how this level of debt has changed over time. According to this item from the Wall Street Journal‘s Real Time Economics blog (8/15/11), “There was $550 billion in student debt outstanding in the second quarter, up 25 percent from $440 billion in the third quarter of 2008.”
And as the Project on Student Debt reports, the average debt load doubled from 1996 to 2008:
Note how Will stacks the deck–comparing the debts of public school graduates with the income of all college graduates, and failing to focus on the salaries of recent graduates, who are the ones most likely to be paying off debt.
Would Will be willing to share his intel on this college-to-career pipeline, where everyone who graduates immediately moves into a well-paying job?
There are a hefty number of unemployed college grads who’d be grateful for the info.
Although the gist of this article is not about Will’s position on global warming, I want to make a remark on this topic. The next time you run into someone who denies global warming, DON’T first ask why he or she thinks that human-caused global warming is non-existent, RATHER, ask that person to first explain the scientific model that climate scientists work with and the data used to support the claim, AND THEN ask what issues he or she has with the model and the data. The order in which you ask these questions is important. You will of course not change that person’s mind, but 9 out of 10 times you will shut him up rather quickly.
“But one-third of students do not borrow to pay college tuition.”
On the one hand, FAIR has it nailed with the response “one lesson is that 2/3 of college students should either get themselves full scholarships or wealthier parents.” Of course, increasingly those two groups of students tend to be the same as need-based scholarships are replaced by “merit” based, i.e., who got the highest test scores and inflated GPAs in IB and AP programs in high school, a group that is always strongly correlated with wealthy (and college educated) parents.
But on the other, it misses the moral dimension inherent in Will’s comments. The clear implication is that if the 1/3 can do it, the other 2/3 can, too. And if they don’t it’s because of a failing in moral fiber. It’s a fairly typical conservative argument from folks desperate to legitimate their privilege at the cost of society at large.
George Will is the disgrace to journalism who helped Reagan rehearse with a stolen Jimmy Carter debate book. Believe it or not, journalist used to be a very respected profession. George Will is historically noteworthy for changing the journalist profession to propagandist. Somebody rip that ugly toupee off his head!
Read the article.It sums up the failing dreams of progressive liberalism.The idea that you can just say that the science of man made global warming IS…..And that gives government the right to take whatever power it deems over us ,for our own good of course has been pretty well been scuttled I would say.The “science”has been returned to science and away from political brinksmanship.We are finally getting some good data.And it is very mixed.As logic would demand to such a complicated unproven notion.
That government can keep printing money for this or that(student loans)is just not going to happen.We have to realize we are broke and no taxation of the so called rich is going to fix that.But all that aside the worst thing that is happening is that this country is trying to rise, in spite of Obama sitting squarely on it’s back.I believe the worst is yet to come for the left.Moments after the new president takes the oath the healing will begin.It will be quick and sweeping.it will not include money flowing from government outward.It will happen with America and her markets rebounding and money flowing into the government.What excuse will the left proffer?
That global warming is occurring is no longer a subject for debate. Rising levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, rising global temperatures, melting ice caps, slowly rising ocean levels all point to global warming and most reasonable people believe that man plays a role in this.
As for student tuition, students in many parts of Europe have little if any student debt. It’s free to each family but paid for by taxes. Our taxes are used to fight wars, rebuild other nations (and even fight for other nations), pay military contractors, pay for the highest defense budget in the world, and appoint ourselves as Keeper of the Peace of the Planet (particularly in places that are oil rich).
I also believe that at least some students are really not college material but go to college because so many of those blue collar working jobs that used to be enough to sustain a family have been sent overseas. In fact, we pay companies to send jobs overseas and Republicans are happy with that as they refused to end that practice at the beginning of last year.
Also keep in mind that U.S. wages are stagnating and unable to keep up with college costs, just as incomes are unable to keep up with the costs of so many other necessities.
Excellent, Elaine. These are facts that the rich, corrupt, and “bought and paid for” Congress refuse to acknowledge. I wonder why we rebuild roads, schools, and bridges in Iraq and Afghanistan while ours are crumbling.
It’s worth pointing out that Arrhenius more than a hundred years ago noted that an increase in atmospheric carbon dioxide could lead to an increase in the earth’s average temperature. That was long before the science became politicized. Actually the role that CO2 and other gases (including water vapor) play in the atmosphere is well known; the mechanism is clear. No, the science was not politicized by a massive conspiracy of liberal scientists making false claims to ensure that research dollars kept rolling in.But there most definitely is a split along party lines by those who do not know the science that well. Why? Well, I guess that’s the $64000 question, isn’t it? To answer that question, I’d look to see who has most to lose. Historically, Republicans have supported science becasue they have seen the connection between basic research, applied science, commercially viable technology–in short, profits. What do you do when that same science gives you an answer that you don’t like? You shout, “Down with the EPA! Up with States Rights! and Hooray for Deregulation!”
This nutty George Will column left me howling with laughter. His thesis was that Obama would win the White House again but that Republicans would win both houses of Congress, and GW thinking would prevail. Huh? Tangents included global warming denial, “straw dog” arguments about progressives, and triumphalist “we’re winning!!” cheers. Vintage GW. It’s awfully cruel that they don’t put GW out to pasture. But if they ever did I sure would miss out on a lot of fun.
George Will is among the best of the old spin doctors that pass for intellectuals in the hard right Conservatives as it sinks into the morass of hyper religious super Capitalists. Where an Aryan God runs the “magical” market place that produces the goods. But only for a few “blessed” ones. Global Warming is so far gone that only the most myopic stick to the fallacious “world been cooling down” screed. Now they simply say the warming is normal. Even if it isn’t. That humanity is “too small” to make any dent in it. Show them that our climate right now is a balancing rock and it is tipping to the hot zone. Not that the closed minded would ever change their minds but the truth must be thrown at them anyway like michael-e who is that breath of stale air we need to remind of the ones we are fighting against to help fix the world before it tips too far out of our line to repair.
Global warming has the science side with a plethora of questions and answers that are dictated to by the political side.And there in lies the problem.Usually in descending order…Does C02 cause warming?Yes it does.Does man contribute?Yes he does.Could one sunspot do more than all of mankind in it’s history to effect global climate change?Yes it…….(shut that down we can’t talk about that).Has the earth warmed many times before industrial technology(shut that down)Is it possible data shows we are slipping into an ice age?(shut that down)What if human output is causing it?LETS TALK about that.Has data been fudged by scientists to stay on the government tit(shut er down)Should government take over industry and pass carbon credits and other such ideas?(Lets not talk about that….until the sheeple are all herded in)Is mans carbon output blocking the harsh effects of the coming ice age?Yes but……man can not have anything but a negative effect on mother earth(liberal rule #603)Has global climate change ever happened before?(shut that down).Was Bill Clinton right when he said even if it is proven there is little aside from dismantling the modern world that will effect it until new technology comes on board?Um Bill we love ya but shut the hell up.And liberal Night gaunt …..you said the magic words we on the right HATE more than all others.”To help fix the world” back to “our line”.And that is exactly what libs believe.That they should take the reigns before we sub humans destroy thier beautiful world.Elitist,pompous,unhappy little despots .
And Elaine …when you speak about Europe always begin every sentence with BROKE TRAGIC SOCIALIST EUROPE.Then tell us how they give free goodies out left and right.
This is what the December 2011 edition of ‘Science’ magazine indicated: “Climate Outlook (is) Looking Much The Same, or Even Worse.” Science magazine is a well-respected, authoritative source of information for other scientists. They base their conclusions on climate models that are more sophistocated than ever. They show that “sea level rises from all sources, including mountain glacier melting and ocean water expansion, will surely continue and will accelerate…..”. They also judged that “several times more greenhouse gases would be released by 2100 than models had been calling for.” The conclusion was that …..”the broad outlook is not a great deal more disturbing than it already was.” (My apologies to ‘Science’ if anything here is not as they would have expressed it).
So what shall we do about it? Pray for new technology to solve the problem? How about putting our fingers in our ears and shouting “la-la-la-la-la” while repeating, that it’s politicized. It’s happened before. Data is fudged. By all means, I invite the scientists on this site to bring their own climate models to the next conference and challenge the findings of climate scientists with your own.
If I am to begin every sentence with BROKE TRAGIC SOCIALIST EUROPE, should I begin every sentence with BROKE TRAGIC GREEDY CAPITALIST AMERICA? I suppose we’ll just have to accept that about 45,000 Americans die every year for lack of health insurance, that 59 million have none, that people with health insurance have escalating premiums (beyond inflation) for junk insurance that demands higher deductibles, higher co-pays, and then won’t pay for certain procedures (or only partially pay–the biggest cause of bankruptcy in the U.S. is medical bankruptcy and many of those people had medical insurance), that the U.S. ranks about 37th in health care and evil, socialist France ranks at the top, that we now need to work till we’re 70 if we make it to 70, that we pay as much, or maybe more, than tragic, broke Europe for less than they get, that we have the least generous social safety net as compared to other major democracies, that poverty is rising in this country while the bucks continue to flow to the top, that the middle class is collapsing, and that a person who really cares about family values would want to provide families with economic support and a decent old age.
Look around you. What you see in this country reflects our real values and, in my opinion, we appear to value the needs of an Empire over the needs of our own people.
Raul, was your post directed at me?
Excellently stated, Elaine. Bravo.
As for the article, the first question that came to mind while reading it was, what specifically are these figures comprised of? In other words, has student loan debt increased due to more college students in general? Or increased tuition rates? Or less loans being repaid because of the economic downturn? Or a combination of the three? Before one can make an informed judgment on this data, it would help to know how it’s arrived at.
I wish Mr. Will would stick to baseball, in that dream world of his!
I really haven’t studied information on why college tuition is rising so fast. Could it be that federal and state subsidies have dropped substantially because of the economy? I think that’s certainly true of publicly funded colleges which, as I recall, specifically stated (in a newspaper article I read) that tuitions would rise because of less reimbursement.
The latest information that I saw was that upwards of 100,000 people die every year from lack of healthcare. Our lifespans are beginning to shorten too as a logical outcome from the destruction of the middle and lower classes. And it is only going to get worse.
I had the unpleasant misfortune of having to listen to George Will at the commencement of my friends graduating ahead of me at the University of Illinois in 1988. He told us that the fact that voter participation was dropping in the gutter showed how happy everyone was with the Aemrican political system: everyone is so happy they do not care who represents them. He also said Jesse Jackson was too extreme to be elected president, but that he demonstrated that we had racial equality and could have a black president any time. What a sage!
Elaine you outline the Problems as you see them.But you dance around what can be done to change things.Let me help.Grow governments power over our lives!(Of course that will not effect CHINA one wit)What do you see as the solution?I will prepare myself for your answer with a stiff drink.
.And the whole idea that this country does not have the best over all healthcare is based on models that plays with facts.I do not agree with them.
Read Kim clark….The surprising causes of those tuition hikes
We have good health care if you can afford it. The problem is that it is becoming less and less affordable. Who, for example, pays the drug costs that we are forced to pay in this country? You don’t agree with the models? Set up your own and argue with the people who differ.
“…you dance around what can be done to change things.” I don’t recall offering solutions to change things on this particular topic. However, reported in the newspaper today was the following: “…..universities boosted tuition which made a college education less affordable” (for the children in my state). Higher university costs were due to state cuts to education.
I thought you were already inebriated every time you posted.
Elaine in the end only one thing will bring prices down in both instances.Competition!You pay seven dollars per aspirin in a hospital.You can get a bottle for a buck.Insurance picks up the cost and so the sky is the limit on one.Not your money so who cares.Open drug companies to real competition and you will see change.Healthcare here is the only industry that has not one care as to a persons ability to pay.Because insurance pays it.As if Insurance grows on trees.When Rsvlt started healthcare as a benefit during ww2 he was warned that the cost would become massive out of any reckoning to reality.This is the end game to any govt handout.Or in this case insurance hand out.
Did you see the list on the colleges with the highest govt pay outs?Uniformly that money was tide to new building projects.We have lost sight of what constitutes a good education.Teachers salaries are high.Some schools (Harvard)have such huge endowments- the kids could go for free.I for one do not believe tuition should be sky rocketing as a matter of course.I believe it is a matter of choice.As far as govt funding……We are broke.17 trillion to get back to broke actually.Don’t expect anything from govt anymore.We need to learn to fix things the old fashioned way.With our own where -with all.
That was the purpose of a public option. Competition! But Congress apparently wouldn’t allow it to see the light of day.
Private insurers pay the bill? Really? Is that why over 60% of the bankruptcies in this country are due to medical bankruptcies, even when people have insurance? Insurance companies are pushing more and more of the costs onto the insured in the form of higher deductibles, higher co-pays or flat out denial of payments or partial payment of bills. Every denial means higher profits. Not only are medical costs being passed onto consumers but retirement costs, too. No more pensions. Phasing out of severance pay. Talk of ending Social Security as we know it.
Funny how the debt becomes a concern for you when talking about medical costs but not when talking about war. War costs don’t count. Don’t expect anything from the government but….what….more war?
I don’t know all the reasons why college tuition is so high but I do know that at least half the states have cut their funding to colleges and this has definitely led to higher tuition. So I’ll add that we, the people, must fund more and more of the costs of college as well as the costs of medicine and drugs as well as the costs of retirement, all while watching our jobs outsourced and our wages stagnate or fall. Perhaps government exists for the purpose of saddling us with more war debts.
Elaine you list a lot of problems .These problems are real, and translate into pain.I would say what you are saddled with though is a liberal mentality.A mentality that believes this great experiment of ours has failed,and that gives only one answer to every question.Take it from somebody else …to pay every debt.But 4 years under Obama has shown this is an illusion.A lie.A subterfuge.A play for power without scruples.Playing off class warfare as the final straw.
It amazes me how positive people on the right are.And how intrinsically negative ,depressed, and lost those on the left sound.Yet with your leadership it is so predictable.We can fix the insurance dilemma.We can roar back economically.We can reinfuse this country with jobs ,and hope ,and a better future.Who ever told you we cant?
To correct you.A public option would of had private companies competing against the government.The sole reason for a public option,and the only result possible, would of been the destruction of all insurance companies save the government.
Elaine the idea of attacking success.Subsidizing failure.Printing money….Borrowing money,and taxing the rich to pay for ever diminishing returns has failed.Obamas money guru,the ex Gov Corzine is off to jail.Taking the keneysian style stimulus claptrap down the trillions dollar rat hole with him.The unions have been paid off.Kiss it goodbye.Come November we leap forward.Up and out of this mess.
“Come November we leap forward. Up and out of this mess.” Yes, we’ll leap forward with a man (Willard Romney) who said “corporations are people,” He took distressed companies, laid off employees, cleaned up the balance sheet, sold the companies, and handed out bonus checks to the rest of the vultures and millions to himself. He’s worth about 200 million, maybe more, but refuses to release his tax records, last time I heard. I have a feeling I might be paying more in taxes than Willard as a percentage of my income. So somebody has to show me how we will leap ahead with this man.
“Take it from somebody else….” No, what I’m asking is that everybody pay their fair share and that is not happening right now and, in fact, has been worsening over the past 30 years. Bush’s tax cuts, heavily favoring the rich, are one of the reasons we are in a bad financial situation. According to the Congressional Budget Office, incomes rose 275% for the top 1% of this country (from 1979-2008). Did your income rise 275%? And I am saddened because it is harmful to this country. It encourages civil unrest, shrinking economic opportunities and social mobility for all (especially the young). Work hard, play by the rules, and find yourself cut out of a market society anyway.
That 35% corporate tax rate? The U.S. is already one of the least taxed countries for corporations in the developed world. Conservatives conveniently forget many countries have closed their corporate tax loopholes while the U.S. has expanded them so many corporations are not paying that 35% they, or their Congressional friends, complain about. Last time I checked, corporations had a ton of cash. In fact, they’re sitting on two trillion dollars and Willard wants to lower corporate taxes.
Elaine you shoveled this tripe 4 years ago and you have had your say.Now we will have ours.When Romney gets in he will move instantly to kill Obama care.Hopefully he will move to cut corp taxes,and capital gains.He will move to extend tax cuts for everyone.I believe the effect on GNP and the markets will be immediate.I believe the economy will surge ,along with job growth,and most other economic indicators.If that happens be kind enough to say you were wrong.If it does not, i surely will.DO NOT take up any airspace by deriding the rebounding of this country as a bad thing.Though other liberals will try,try to grow beyond the wonton depression that success seems to bring out in liberals.
Just what we need–less money coming in and another war (which you seem to want). Isn’t that what Bush did–cut taxes and get us in two wars? A real stroke of genius! That worked out so well that we need to do it again and again. The effects will indeed be immediate with a good chance that the world will drop us as the reserve currency (some countries have already done so) as we get further into debt and you will see hyperinflation in this country that you have never seen before. Contrary to your deranged opinion, I would be thrilled to see an economic rebound in this country but it’s not going to happen with more trickle down economics.
Well we disagree.Obama is a huge drain on business.The world marketing indexes have stated clearly to him that they do not agree with his economic ideas and have downgraded us.Hyperinflation?Love we are 17 trillion(low end)in ,short of printing 17 trillion hard times are ahead.Remember you may hate trickle down were wealth is recreated.But there is no other way.Trickle up is not a reality.And trickle down from government is not a creation of wealth.It is simply a reshuffling of resources with ever diminishing returns.Lets say I think and you dont, that under Mitt the economy will rebound and start to rise.With all the ugly things that that brings with it(in libs eyes).Elaine it is either up…or down.With BAM it has all been down.How bout stepping off the plate and letting the next batter have a swing?
If, after 30 years of trickle down economics, you still believe that’s the way to go, so be it. Vote for Willard who refuses to even release his tax returns, causing me to wonder if he paid taxes at all.
However, let’s await his ideas on how he’s going to turn this country around, besides the same old “reduce corporate taxes,” “keep the Bush tax cuts,” deregulation, more money for the military, spend less by gutting programs that help middle class/ poor Americans, (including less money for higher education), etc.
Well the idea of “trickle down ” is simple really. A man starts a business.Builds it into a success ,and hires more and more people as the business thrives.Money moves through creation ,to disbursement.It become fluid back into the economy with a portion going to taxation.How the Dems ever made the process an ugly word shows the disengagement from capitalism.
Of course I too await specificity in his programs.Something we never got with Obama.
And do you remember the Dems screaming about us calling BAM-Barack Hussain Obama?I notice you call Mitt- Willard.Interesting.Does it mean something to you?Do you hate Milton, and like Willard?
As far as what I see from his economic ideas ,I do believe anything ,or anyone would be better than Obama.We will have to see if what you believe, or what i believe is right.Time will tell.I would say to you….take heart.It WILL get much better as soon as he is gone.
Willard happens to be his name. Is his name “Mittens” and he’s called “Mitt” for short?
We’ve had trickle down for thirty years. Nothing much trickled down on me or most others but there was a gusher going in the other direction to the top.
Willard Milton Romney.He has always been called Mitt.I believe that is what he prefers.
Im sorry nothing has trickled down to you.Though I dare say everything you own,everything you use,everything within your sight and beyond(aside from redistributed government aid)is the result of someone creating it and yes(gasp) making a profit on it.I have never worked for a poor man.I think what you mean is that many people who have struggled and taken the risk , and have succeeded beyond their wildest dreams ….now have more than other people.And that angers you.Other people who don’t give a shit how it was earned.Other people who want their cut.Or to be supported.Or to have enough taken from them)the so called rich) by the government to cut them back down to size.To redistribute their success to subsidize failure.To remove their “dominance”over others who have less.To confiscate their whips that drive their slave labor…………See how class warfare insanity works? :)
Your argument is against capitalism.Do you believe in socialism?
Speaking of names….Type in Santorum on google.About 3 down- see what the most open minded among us have printed .Google has so far refused to remove it.I recall when a faction of the NAACP faction had an add that called Obama an uncle Tom that they apologized, and removed it within 36 hours.Interesting no?
Cut the B.S., Michael e. People aren’t angry because other people are rich. People admire wealthy people who have made their riches the right way–through creativity, smarts, perhaps some luck, hard work, persistence. They are angry when it’s made through fraud and corruption–the kind of greed and corruption that we have seen on Wall St. and elsewhere that brought economic misery and pain to millions of people, all across this globe.
I have friends who work on wall street Elaine.Good people who go to work in the morning and come home to kids at night to do schoolwork.Again I guess it is the OTHER guy two cubicles down who is to blame.Lib mentality is to always see things this way.They play by rules legislated to them.When they break the LAW they should be held accountable.When they stay inside the law you may not agree but…..
I did not blame Fanny and Freddy per say for starting the meltdown.I blamed The Dems who started it and bush who couldn’t stop it.Look at all the Dems being investigated for getting insider info from the FED chairman,and making zillions(no Rs yet).Funny thing is….it is legal and they can’t be prosecuted.Again THEY legislated that rule.Your anger is fine .Your blame is misplaced.
We are where we are because of thirty years of trickle down economics, tax cuts for the rich and for corporations, wars put on a credit card, the deregulation of the banking industry, and just plain greed. Both parties are to blame. The meltdown started under Bush, not the Dems. Things are sometimes legal but that doesn’t make them right.
And this will be what the next vote is over.Again …are you a believer in socialism?
Are you a believer in vulture capitalism?
Does anyone here enjoy reading the troll-athons instigated by “michael e” and, crucially, taken up by otherwise-thoughtful people? If you don’t, do you enjoy having to scroll down through the page, seeking out intelligent posts and intelligent responses to them? I, for one, do not. I’d much rather read through intelligent thoughtful conversations, with the occasional trollish rantings inevitably petering out due to no one taking the bait.
Don’t feed the trolls, it only encourages them.