It’s bad enough that corporate media are having such an ill-informed debate about whether torturing some prisoners helped find Osama bin Laden. But considering whom the media invite to this debate, it’s probably not a surprise. Take yesterday’s Sunday shows (please!).
On NBC‘s Meet the Press, Obama national security adviser Thomas Donilon basically refused to take a definitive position on torture, waterboarding and intelligence. “No single piece of intelligence led to this,” was his line. They followed up with a segment with former CIA head Michael Hayden and Rudy Giuliani, both of whom basically endorsed the idea that torture worked.
On CBS‘s Face the Nation, Donald Rumsfeld declared that these tactics worked.
Fox News Sunday had an “exclusive” with Dick Cheney, which followed a pretty contentious interview with Donilon. Cheney did not surprise.
On ABC‘s This Week, torture advocate Liz Cheney was on the roundtable to say exactly what you’d expect. (“That debate is over. It worked. It got the intelligence. It wasn’t torture. It was legal.”) This came after host Christiane Amanpour seemed to overstate the White House’s view, saying that that Obama officials have admitted that waterboarding “did, in fact, yield fruitful information in the hunt for Osama bin Laden.”
But give ABC credit for having a critic of torture on their show. Former Washington Post reporter Tom Ricks said this:
I never thought I’d live in a country where we would debate whether we should endorse torture as an official policy. Was some information obtained through torture? Probably yeah. Could it have been obtained through more professional methods the intelligence professionals recommended? Almost certainly yes. We could have gotten it sooner and better.
Also, what we know is that the use of torture became the prime recruiting tool for Al Qaida and for insurgents in Iraq, and so directly resulted in the death of American troops.
Of course torture works. How else could one explain the use of torture in the scientific government run by Stalin?
At last Americans are getting up to speed in those areas of science that the old Soviet Union had long ago surpassed the United States.
Starting with a clear moral position:
> I never thought I’d live in a country where we would debate whether we should endorse torture as an official policy,
it is unfortunate that one quickly moves to interests-based arguments:
> We could have gotten it sooner and better.
> Also, what we know is that the use of torture became the prime recruiting tool for Al Qaida and for insurgents in Iraq, and so directly resulted in the death of American troops.
Useful, useless or counterproductive – that should not matter. Torture is wrong and that is all there should be to it.
Thank you, Tom Ricks. Is he the only person willing to stand up in public against torture? If so, he’s the only one I would ever vote for for president.
I agree, Sortition. Torture is wrong, and it’s wrong to defend torture based whether or not it “worked.”
…Wasn’t Obama against torture too… before he was elected?
The Soviet Union, the Gestapo, proved that torture works.. To get a person to say or admit to whatever the torturer wants. It does not work to gather information when the torturer does not have a desired result. However, it does solidify the prejudices and ill will of those who are aware of what is being done to others.
I can’t stand that some of them would argue the ‘legality’ of torture. What about the ‘morality’ of torture? It IS immoral, does not produce results, fans the flames of our enemies fire, and is WRONG. Period.
No Carol, he’s not. John McCain, in forceful, blunt terms, declared flatly that torture and cruel and inhuman punishment did not get our government the information it needed. McCain claimed his information came from current CIA director Leon Panetta. It’s not the first time McCain has spoken out forcefully about torture and the criminal use of it by our government. I noticed that Glenn Beck, the flailing butterball of dumb lies, has been dressed down by Mrs. McCain for his idiotic condemnation of the McCain’s daughter’s Public Service Announcement about the hazards of excessive sun exposure. What a cowardly little prick, just like the cowards who don’t have the balls to call torture torture.
Im thinking government run reality TV.Jersey shore water boarding!A guaranteed hit.
Imagine if the Iranians took those hikers who are on trial and water boarded them 180 times to check if they were CIA. Our president(and ex presidents)would be yelling torture right quick.WE DO NOT TORTURE IN THIS COUNTRY.All government officials should have it tattooed on their faces.
Remember Silvester Stallone and the movie Rambo? The way you knew the good guys from the bad guys was that the bad guys used torture.
it is a clever title on this “sunday morning torture” article ! because seeing most of these guests given the time to talk about the disgusting acts which they support IS torture for many to listen to, indeed!
the msm is torture every morning and night.
and since christiane amanpour was supposedly a good friend to jfk jr, it is torturous to see her hosting them (the gang) to their interviews, as well.
for liz cheney to say,”it’s not torture because it’s legal”!? is a typical twist-and-mush-it-up remark, i’d say.
we get this kind of explanation all the time these days. no wonder the public is apathetic. who can argue against this junk?
where do you start?
when the criminals explain how the crime was right, of course it makes sense to them!
only when the msm stops having the cheneys and rumsfelds on on sunday mornings, can we maybe start believing that our country is not being held captive and tortured by…… primarily very powerful…… war profiteers and proponents of ALL the torture that comes with it.
until then all sunday morning shows will be painful to watch for anyone who hates the killing, the disgusting violence, the mega waste of money and national efforts.
in fact all the “news” has become painful to watch, and it does seem even worse in the past two years. how’s it possible?
the tv and radio are actively and successfully DESTROYING good inquiry, good information, and justice, and democracy.
THEY MEAN TO DO IT, AND EVERY DAY AND NIGHT, CONSTANTLY, THEY ARE DOING THE WORK OF THE WAR AND POWER DICTATORS, AREN’T THEY?
whether it’s stupid news or heavy propaganda , it’s all mixed up constantly, with advertisements and all which goes in between the segments of garbage. their goals are serious , though, and seriously destructive- like torture is.
PILGER’s article this week about murdoch’s control in australia and the u.k. gives an expert view on how the fascist/racist/corporate propaganda works its way around the monopoly -controlled media and its ugly effects.
thanks.
I’m not sure why there isn’t a boycott of beltway press organized by progressives. They have their thumb on the scale and it won’t change until they are threatened. Actually they are so entrenched in the Washington scene that I doubt they are capable of change even under duress.
The nobel “Fourth Estate” now decides what the news will be rather than ferreting out what it actually should be. Without an independent press it is hard to imagine that we can survive as a democracy.
I tend to believe somebody who has actually been in Foriegn hands and tortured, to explain whether or not it works. Appearently, the answer is no.
I tend to believe that you debase yourself when you cross the line and use such tactics.
I wouldn’t even use waterboarding to find out the truth about World Trade Center building number 7, but then, we didn’t try it out for that application anyway, did we?
I’m not paticularly wise, but at least I never watch the Sunday mornig drivel. I haven’t watched Meet The Press since Lawrence Spivak was the host of the live broadcast (not taped like today)!
In other words, haven’t watched it since the 50’s.